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 Post subject: Kodiak Inergy,battery +
PostPosted: June 16th, 2017, 6:50 am 
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Ok,so they call it a Solar generator,but its a 95 ah lithium (nmc)battery in a small box 20lbs combined with true sine inverter,outlets ac,12v,usb.designed to be charged by outlet,solar panel,or vehicle alternator.At the moment off grid,in a cabin,i picked one up and will report back as i put it to various tasks.Inititial notes;the car charger connects via a 'neutrik connector'and is the quickest way to recharge (barring multi solar panels)4 hrs to fully recharge the unit.As for how it works and what it powers that will be the subject of further reports,Rooney is a simple man,so the Kodiak passed the initial test this morning as it powered my 15 bar Espresso machine and coffee was served in the wilderness.will report how it powers other appliances later tests.Rooney


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PostPosted: June 16th, 2017, 12:24 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz
Looking forward to updates! Thanks for posting.
The espresso machine must've been a stout load, assuming it's electorally heated. Probably a thousand watts or so? I'm a bit particular when it comes to coffee, and would love a small pump type espresso machine in the Chinook, but I've resorted to the convenience and size of an Aeropress. No power needed, great joe, easy clean up. Certainly not espresso, tho much better than Mr. Coffee.... thread derail sorry.

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PostPosted: June 16th, 2017, 6:02 pm 
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Scott wrote:
.
The espresso machine must've been a stout load, assuming it's electorally heated.


I guess you can't underestimate the hot air of politics :mrgreen:

I've been tempted to try the Aeropress - I wish it weren't plastic tho (even though no BPA). I just prefer stainless or something else. Good to hear it works well, however.

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PostPosted: June 16th, 2017, 6:04 pm 
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Love my aeropress,but as you say not espresso,next up test is my mini Zorushi rice cooker yes uncle ben,but Rooney again simple.man prefers Tomanshiki.then stay tuned for bread machine on the little Kodiak bugger.Rooney 2001 pr3mier


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PostPosted: June 16th, 2017, 7:41 pm 
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A Rooney wrote:
Love my aeropress,but as you say not espresso,next up test is my mini Zorushi rice cooker yes uncle ben,but Rooney again simple.man prefers Tomanshiki.then stay tuned for bread machine on the little Kodiak bugger.Rooney 2001 pr3mier


I'm more of a long grain basmati kinda guy, but produce great results on the Chinook's Wedgewood. 1 cup rice, 1.75 cup water, bit of salt. Bring to a boil. Simmer 15 mins covered, let it rest 15 mins more. DON'T look at it. Perfection ensues. All it needs is a bit of gumbo. Now if I could just bring my pizza oven with us instead of all this silly bedding.

If you get a bread machine going, then I will be quite impressed. :D

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PostPosted: June 16th, 2017, 7:45 pm 
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Blue~Go wrote:
Scott wrote:
.
The espresso machine must've been a stout load, assuming it's electorally heated.


I guess you can't underestimate the hot air of politics :mrgreen:

I've been tempted to try the Aeropress - I wish it weren't plastic tho (even though no BPA). I just prefer stainless or something else. Good to hear it works well, however.


That was pretty funny. Good one :lol:

Yeah, I hear you on the plastic. I would much prefer glass. I should call him. They have an actual phone number, and would probably love to issue a glass version if there is an audience.

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PostPosted: June 19th, 2017, 5:37 pm 
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Ok the literature says 1000 watt microwave the inergy can run 1hr,well that was not my experience,both my 1000 watt microwaves actually draw over 1500 watts wbjch is the inverters surge limit.So if mohammed will not go to the mt,the mt will have to go to him....(risky metaphor perhaps these days)i bought a small 700 watt microwave and ran it on high for 5 minutes without issue,although the inergys meter said i was drawing 1200 watts.The unit did get warm and for several minutes cooled itself down by engaging its fan.more real world tests to follow. ROONEY 2001 PREMIER


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PostPosted: June 20th, 2017, 5:25 am 
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A Rooney wrote:
Ok the literature says 1000 watt microwave the inergy can run 1hr,

So, there's no need with the Lithium battery to limit yourself to taking out no more than 50% of the Amp Hours like with our Lead Acid models?

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well that was not my experience,both my 1000 watt microwaves actually draw over 1500 watts

Yeah, the wattage listed on a microwave is the cooking power, not the far greater amount needed to generate it.

--
I have to admit that I spent too much time trying to figure out 12V-inverter driven ways of powering the microwave just for my family passengers who sometimes want to heat up something WHILE we're driving down the road.

I first thought about dedicating a 100 Ah battery under the rear dinette with its own inverter, to do nothing but power the microwave (and sockets over the dinette for 110v phone chargers). But it seemed like overkill for the ability to power the full size microwave for about 20 minutes max, and then spend hours recharging.

Alternatively, I thought about adding an extra 200 Amp alternator, which would be dedicated to the task, along with a battery. After all, I reasoned, since they usually wanted to use the microwave while driving down the road, why not take advantage of the engine power?

In the end, reason prevailed, and I realized it was a lot easier and cheaper to simply fire up the Onan for a few minutes at a time while driving. Cost: almost nothing except a few dimes' worth of fuel at most.

Mind you, if someone gave me a Lithium battery pack, I would not turn it away :lol:

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PostPosted: June 20th, 2017, 6:48 am 
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Obviously,i have thoughts about over the top product claims,(that 1000 watt microwave for 1 hr)is actually printed on the outside of the box the unit comes in.The companys says they have a utube with the Kodiak running a 900 watt microwave.I do have general impressions,not related to evaluating the products performance (i will address later)for now i am just reporting on performance,although i expect the microwave to be the most intense of tests.So for the record,just dont expect to plug your rig into a kodiak and run the built in microwave as supplied.Rooney 3001 Premier


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PostPosted: June 20th, 2017, 7:09 am 
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Kevin,

You asked about the 50% draw-down rule of thumb, and how it differs on the lithium batteries. Lithiums (as we'd use in our RV) can be drawn down to about 80% depth-of-discharge (DOD). That's one of their advantages. Off the top of my just-started-my-coffee head, here are the plusses and minuses as I think of them. Note that I'm still on the learning curve with lithium and also lead acid to some extent (but at least I have run those for years).


Lead-acid (I'll use AGM, since that's what I have):

Pros:
Cheaper (ha, they USED to seem expensive, now they are "cheaper").
Can be charged when they are below freezing.
They don't love heat, but they are more tolerant of it, especially if not discharged.
Are damaged by certain mistreatment, but not instantly killed (usually).
Can be read with a Smart Gauge (very accurate SOC).
Relatively low self-discharge rate in storage (especially if not hot).

Cons:
Relatively heavy.
For best overall service life, want to be kept to around 50% DOD*. Hence you are carrying around 50% "dead lead."
Not thrilled with stupid charging.
Less expensive than lithiums, but still not cheap.
Relatively long absorption times use up a lot of the solar charging "day."
Want temperature compensated charging for best accuracy.

Lithium (typically LiFPO4)
Pros:
Can be discharged to around 80% DOD without being bothered.
Lighter (well, you need fewer for same effective amount of amp hours).
No absorption time so all of the day's solar is full-on charging (not voltage limited slow absorption).
Don't need temperature compensated charging (yay can finally use Victron solar controller).
Relatively low self-discharge rate in storage (if not hot).
They shrug off big discharges (no Peukert effect), so running things like a microwave or even air-conditioner can work (of course you have to have the basic capacities and recharge abilities still, but they don't take it on the chin like lead acid - hence why a tiny lithium battery pack can start my V10).

Cons:
Cannot be charged when below freezing (or they DIE).
Lose capacity permanently if kept in hot place (more than lead acid).
Can't be read with smart gauge (minor though).
You thought AGM's were expensive? :lol: (even though you only need about 60% as many)
Wrong charging kills them
Going below 80% DOD can kill them (although battery management system should cut that off).
Need battery management system (BMS) (often part of deal).
Maybe not quite as clear on alternator charging (some BMS say OK, and then limit amount of current that they can take in so as not to suck alternator dry if batteries are low because they can accept a LOT OF charge all at once) (also is charging "good enough" for them from alternator?). Victron does make a BMS specifically aimed at vehicles and alternator charging. They definitely don't want to be charged at 14+ volts, which some alternators put out (no absorb).

I do think lithium are the wave of the present/future, although I can see some circumstances where they wouldn't work. Mainly I'm thinking of temperature control. For example you wouldn't be able to charge them if they were in the Chinook stock exterior compartment and it was below freezing. Also hot weather would be even harder on them than it is on lead acid batteries. I have a small refrigerator in my car (with its own battery and solar panel) and I can't see ever changing that to lithium (as we presently know it) because it just gets too hot in the car. On the other hand that's one of the reasons I moved my Chinook battery bank in under the couch: I figured I'd likely go lithium at some point. Luckily my AGM bank is still doing okay, because it's nice to have some time to see how things evolve.

BG

*PS: The 50% DOD "rule" on lead acid is just a rule of thumb for longest life. There could easily be times when it would make sense to run them lower. Say maybe you can only fit one battery (or you are very weight limited). So your strategy might be to run to 70% DOD and just replace it sooner (but you are only replacing one, and you are carrying around less "dead lead"). The Lifeline Battery Manual (for one example) has a graph that shows the tradeoffs of various DOD % as relates to service life, so you can make a plan. (And if you discharge them less than even 50%, then they last even longer.) So no hard and fast line there.

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