Hello new owner
Hello new owner
Hello we are new owners of a 1997 Chinook Premier that we like very much. Have had a couple of friends suggest that now we'll need a tow vehicle so that we won't be marooned when camping. Actually one of the reasons we purchased a Chinook was so we could drive it around even when camping. Was wondering if any of you fellow members tow a 2nd vehicle and if yes why? Thanks for this site.
Re: Hello new owner
Welcome! And congrats on your new Chinook 
The very first Chinook I ever looked at was a 1997 Premier. At that time I ended up with a camper van, but I always had that Chinook in mind and eventually did switch to one. Starting with a camper van is a good way to make the Chinook seem huge
I've been camping/traveling without a tow car for a few years, and as it happens, I'm looking for one right now. Why? Well, first of all, it's not about the Chinook being hard to drive anywhere. I like driving large vehicles (bus/truck/etc.) so the Chinook seems smallish in comparison, and I've got it set up to be relatively sporty and fun to drive (although I don't just whip it into a normal parking lot spot like the camper van). It's more about how I want to camp/do now.
I like to boondock off the beaten track. You can stay on most public land/boondocking spots for 14 days. I can go 14 days in terms of supplies and tankage, but... I don't want to always just stay at the rig (or only hike). I'd like to be able to run into town, or go exploring on some back roads. I could take the Chinook, but having a camping buddy with a toad, I've seen how it can be nice to set up camp and then use the toad. Some of the spots I like to get into take a while to achieve in the Chinook (ease on down rocky road at 10 mph, etc.), so once I'm there I have no great desire to take the Chinook in and out every time I want to go somewhere.
In many ways, a small trail/street motorcycle would be perfect. But these days I'm basically afraid to ride one on the road, what with everyone busily tapping out texts or examining their nav screens vs. just driving.
A side bonus to a toad will be an easy way to carry kayaks or bikes. An MSU! (mobile storage unit)
Sometimes when leaving my rig at trailheads I wished it was back in a more secure camping spot and only a car at the trailhead or launch. And too, I sometimes like to explore roads that I don't really want to take the Chinook down (not that I'm going to get a Jeep, but the width/height of the Chinook can sometimes rule out a small road/track).
I towed my buddy's car (actually two different ones at different times) a few thousand miles, so I know how it feels on the Chinook (no biggie, although of course there's nothing like the free-as-a-bird driving when not towing anything).
On the other hand, there are times/situations in which I wouldn't even think of a toad. Even once I have a toad I likely will choose not to have it along sometimes, such as these examples I can think of:
1) Cross country type travel where I'm keeping on the move every day or every few days. No need for the extra hassle as I'd be driving the Chinook all the time anyway.
2) Staying in places that are close to towns/on good roads. Just take the Chinook -- or walk or bike (could carry folding bike in Chinook) (I also do carry an inflatable kayak now in the Chinook).
3) Going camping even for a couple of weeks out in the boonies if it were a destination/getaway type scenario with a friend or friends. Then I'm just there to be there the whole time and soak up the friendship and camp activities.
4) Camping near cities with good public transport or with everything walkable.
As far as the actual mechanics of towing the car... here is what I found through towing a couple of cars for around 3,000 miles (once with camper van; once with Chinook).
1) No problem for the Chinook. The main problem weight area for the Chinook - the rear axle - is not affected because when towing a car "four down" there is no tongue weight. Contrast this to when I tow a trailer that has 325# of tongue weight - that results in an effective 550# of added weight to the rear axle (actual tongue weight plus effect of overhang between rear axle and hitch ball). I can still do that and stay under the rear axle weight rating, but some Chinooks might not be able to squeeze that in depending on how they are optioned or loaded. At any rate, no issue with a toad as they don't have tongue weight.
2) Much less noticeable to town than say, a longer tandem boat type trailer. It just follows you along, and while you do have to know you are towing, it doesn't "cut" corners and such like a longer regular trailer does. There is one area where it is worse than a regular trailer, and that is that you can't back up (which you can do with a regular trailer). So you have to plan your approaches a bit. There is the "ace in the hole" of being able to disconnect the toad and drive it over to the side separately in order to sort things out.
3) Of course the rear entry becomes a bit of a pain when towing something. I imagine you have the manual step, like I do. That's actually a plus because it's easier to work around for a hitch/tow bar. I sought it out for that reason (I also tow a trailer sometimes). You just have to flip the lower step up and leave it that way as long as you have something hitched up. Plenty of room to open the door though.
4) Still haven't decided just how to set up towbar. Most towbars nowadays stow on the motorhome, which for most people means it just sits there out of the way while in camp, and the car looks clean and uncluttered on the front (tow gear connections hide behind bumper of car). But... the rear entry means the tow bar does NOT just sit there out of the way. Either the bottom step has to be flipped up and the tow bar still there (maybe tilted to side), or you have to remove it (not technically hard, but they way close to 40# and are awkward. Not something I want to be fishing around to fit into the receiver hitch very often. There are (less and less popular) towbars that stay on the car (then you just have a normal little drawbar/ball to remove in order to flip down step), but then you do have a bit of "gear" on the car. Some do at least fold down flat vs. the permanent A-frame. On the other hand that can still be removed from the car and stowed, and then much easier to just put that back on the Chinook ball vs. fishing in the giant, 40# motorhome mounted tow bar. Jury's still out on that for me.
5) Braking system choices no different on the Chinook than any other motorhome, so not unique.
I towed a 2500# car on one trip without supplementary braking (because the braking system control for that car was on the motorhome of the car's owner, not on the car). (This is legal in some states but not all.) I was on a long, flat trip (through Texas). Seemed fine and could barely feel car back there. I'd have supplementary braking on any toad I was permanently towing though - just mentioning it mostly because of the fact that 2,500# car was "barely there." Unfortunately I can't find any 2,500# car that is not either out of my modern safety comfort zone (see above about texting, etc.) or has basically no ground clearance for exploring back roads. For a "civilized roads only" toad I'd have something like a Mini in a heartbeat. Fun!
I towed a 3,500# car on another long and mountainous trip. That had the supplemental braking on the car, so I had the use of it. And was happy to have it. Not that the car felt like too much, but it was not quite as much "not there" as the smaller car, plus there were a number of 6% or more downgrades (Colorado). On the other hand it's a car you can take on back roads and has good ground clearance (why buddy changed to it from other tow car).
I'm not sure if they are still traveling, but a while back I was reading a blog called something like "Full Time? No Way!" being written by a couple full timing in a 21' Chinook (dinette layout). After a year they did decide "yes way, but not without a tow car" and so they got a Jeepy jeep (not familiar with model names, but I mean the classic Jeep type jeep) and seemed to have a great time with it (they liked to camp in the boonies like I do).
These are just my thoughts. I've been Chinooking (and camper vanning) for years without a toad, so it's very doable. And there is the fun side of having everything with you everywhere you go! Even mundane things like the laundromat: You hang out in the parking lot "at home" while the stuff's in the machines, and then just bring it out.... right into your dresser!
Again, welcome to the forum! I hope you enjoy browsing around. And of course post as often as you like
The very first Chinook I ever looked at was a 1997 Premier. At that time I ended up with a camper van, but I always had that Chinook in mind and eventually did switch to one. Starting with a camper van is a good way to make the Chinook seem huge I've been camping/traveling without a tow car for a few years, and as it happens, I'm looking for one right now. Why? Well, first of all, it's not about the Chinook being hard to drive anywhere. I like driving large vehicles (bus/truck/etc.) so the Chinook seems smallish in comparison, and I've got it set up to be relatively sporty and fun to drive (although I don't just whip it into a normal parking lot spot like the camper van). It's more about how I want to camp/do now.
I like to boondock off the beaten track. You can stay on most public land/boondocking spots for 14 days. I can go 14 days in terms of supplies and tankage, but... I don't want to always just stay at the rig (or only hike). I'd like to be able to run into town, or go exploring on some back roads. I could take the Chinook, but having a camping buddy with a toad, I've seen how it can be nice to set up camp and then use the toad. Some of the spots I like to get into take a while to achieve in the Chinook (ease on down rocky road at 10 mph, etc.), so once I'm there I have no great desire to take the Chinook in and out every time I want to go somewhere.
In many ways, a small trail/street motorcycle would be perfect. But these days I'm basically afraid to ride one on the road, what with everyone busily tapping out texts or examining their nav screens vs. just driving.
A side bonus to a toad will be an easy way to carry kayaks or bikes. An MSU! (mobile storage unit)
Sometimes when leaving my rig at trailheads I wished it was back in a more secure camping spot and only a car at the trailhead or launch. And too, I sometimes like to explore roads that I don't really want to take the Chinook down (not that I'm going to get a Jeep, but the width/height of the Chinook can sometimes rule out a small road/track).I towed my buddy's car (actually two different ones at different times) a few thousand miles, so I know how it feels on the Chinook (no biggie, although of course there's nothing like the free-as-a-bird driving when not towing anything).
On the other hand, there are times/situations in which I wouldn't even think of a toad. Even once I have a toad I likely will choose not to have it along sometimes, such as these examples I can think of:
1) Cross country type travel where I'm keeping on the move every day or every few days. No need for the extra hassle as I'd be driving the Chinook all the time anyway.
2) Staying in places that are close to towns/on good roads. Just take the Chinook -- or walk or bike (could carry folding bike in Chinook) (I also do carry an inflatable kayak now in the Chinook).
3) Going camping even for a couple of weeks out in the boonies if it were a destination/getaway type scenario with a friend or friends. Then I'm just there to be there the whole time and soak up the friendship and camp activities.
4) Camping near cities with good public transport or with everything walkable.
As far as the actual mechanics of towing the car... here is what I found through towing a couple of cars for around 3,000 miles (once with camper van; once with Chinook).
1) No problem for the Chinook. The main problem weight area for the Chinook - the rear axle - is not affected because when towing a car "four down" there is no tongue weight. Contrast this to when I tow a trailer that has 325# of tongue weight - that results in an effective 550# of added weight to the rear axle (actual tongue weight plus effect of overhang between rear axle and hitch ball). I can still do that and stay under the rear axle weight rating, but some Chinooks might not be able to squeeze that in depending on how they are optioned or loaded. At any rate, no issue with a toad as they don't have tongue weight.
2) Much less noticeable to town than say, a longer tandem boat type trailer. It just follows you along, and while you do have to know you are towing, it doesn't "cut" corners and such like a longer regular trailer does. There is one area where it is worse than a regular trailer, and that is that you can't back up (which you can do with a regular trailer). So you have to plan your approaches a bit. There is the "ace in the hole" of being able to disconnect the toad and drive it over to the side separately in order to sort things out.
3) Of course the rear entry becomes a bit of a pain when towing something. I imagine you have the manual step, like I do. That's actually a plus because it's easier to work around for a hitch/tow bar. I sought it out for that reason (I also tow a trailer sometimes). You just have to flip the lower step up and leave it that way as long as you have something hitched up. Plenty of room to open the door though.
4) Still haven't decided just how to set up towbar. Most towbars nowadays stow on the motorhome, which for most people means it just sits there out of the way while in camp, and the car looks clean and uncluttered on the front (tow gear connections hide behind bumper of car). But... the rear entry means the tow bar does NOT just sit there out of the way. Either the bottom step has to be flipped up and the tow bar still there (maybe tilted to side), or you have to remove it (not technically hard, but they way close to 40# and are awkward. Not something I want to be fishing around to fit into the receiver hitch very often. There are (less and less popular) towbars that stay on the car (then you just have a normal little drawbar/ball to remove in order to flip down step), but then you do have a bit of "gear" on the car. Some do at least fold down flat vs. the permanent A-frame. On the other hand that can still be removed from the car and stowed, and then much easier to just put that back on the Chinook ball vs. fishing in the giant, 40# motorhome mounted tow bar. Jury's still out on that for me.
5) Braking system choices no different on the Chinook than any other motorhome, so not unique.
I towed a 2500# car on one trip without supplementary braking (because the braking system control for that car was on the motorhome of the car's owner, not on the car). (This is legal in some states but not all.) I was on a long, flat trip (through Texas). Seemed fine and could barely feel car back there. I'd have supplementary braking on any toad I was permanently towing though - just mentioning it mostly because of the fact that 2,500# car was "barely there." Unfortunately I can't find any 2,500# car that is not either out of my modern safety comfort zone (see above about texting, etc.) or has basically no ground clearance for exploring back roads. For a "civilized roads only" toad I'd have something like a Mini in a heartbeat. Fun!
I towed a 3,500# car on another long and mountainous trip. That had the supplemental braking on the car, so I had the use of it. And was happy to have it. Not that the car felt like too much, but it was not quite as much "not there" as the smaller car, plus there were a number of 6% or more downgrades (Colorado). On the other hand it's a car you can take on back roads and has good ground clearance (why buddy changed to it from other tow car).
I'm not sure if they are still traveling, but a while back I was reading a blog called something like "Full Time? No Way!" being written by a couple full timing in a 21' Chinook (dinette layout). After a year they did decide "yes way, but not without a tow car" and so they got a Jeepy jeep (not familiar with model names, but I mean the classic Jeep type jeep) and seemed to have a great time with it (they liked to camp in the boonies like I do).
These are just my thoughts. I've been Chinooking (and camper vanning) for years without a toad, so it's very doable. And there is the fun side of having everything with you everywhere you go! Even mundane things like the laundromat: You hang out in the parking lot "at home" while the stuff's in the machines, and then just bring it out.... right into your dresser!
Again, welcome to the forum! I hope you enjoy browsing around. And of course post as often as you like
1999 Concourse
Re: Hello new owner
Blue~Go wrote:Welcome! And congrats on your new Chinook
I've been camping/traveling without a tow car for a few years, and as it happens, I'm looking for one right now. Why? Well, first of all, it's not about the Chinook being hard to drive anywhere. I like driving large vehicles (bus/truck/etc.) so the Chinook seems smallish in comparison, and I've got it set up to be relatively sporty and fun to drive (although I don't just whip it into a normal parking lot spot like the camper van). It's more about how I want to camp/do now.
I like to boondock off the beaten track. You can stay on most public land/boondocking spots for 14 days. I can go 14 days in terms of supplies and tankage, but... I don't want to always just stay at the rig (or only hike). I'd like to be able to run into town, or go exploring on some back roads. I could take the Chinook, but having a camping buddy with a toad, I've seen how it can be nice to set up camp and then use the toad. Some of the spots I like to get into take a while to achieve in the Chinook (ease on down rocky road at 10 mph, etc.), so once I'm there I have no great desire to take the Chinook in and out every time I want to go somewhere.
In many ways, a small trail/street motorcycle would be perfect. But these days I'm basically afraid to ride one on the road, what with everyone busily tapping out texts or examining their nav screens vs. just driving.
A side bonus to a toad will be an easy way to carry kayaks or bikes. An MSU! (mobile storage unit)
I towed my buddy's car (actually two different ones at different times) a few thousand miles, so I know how it feels on the Chinook (no biggie, although of course there's nothing like the free-as-a-bird driving when not towing anything).
On the other hand, there are times/situations in which I wouldn't even think of a toad. Even once I have a toad I likely will choose not to have it along sometimes, such as these examples I can think of:
1) Cross country type travel where I'm keeping on the move every day or every few days. No need for the extra hassle as I'd be driving the Chinook all the time anyway.
2) Staying in places that are close to towns/on good roads. Just take the Chinook -- or walk or bike (could carry folding bike in Chinook) (I also do carry an inflatable kayak now in the Chinook).
3) Going camping even for a couple of weeks out in the boonies if it were a destination/getaway type scenario with a friend or friends. Then I'm just there to be there the whole time and soak up the friendship and camp activities.
4) Camping near cities with good public transport or with everything walkable.
As far as the actual mechanics of towing the car... here is what I found through towing a couple of cars for around 3,000 miles (once with camper van; once with Chinook).
1) No problem for the Chinook. The main problem weight area for the Chinook - the rear axle - is not affected because when towing a car "four down" there is no tongue weight. Contrast this to when I tow a trailer that has 325# of tongue weight - that results in an effective 550# of added weight to the rear axle (actual tongue weight plus effect of overhang between rear axle and hitch ball). I can still do that and stay under the rear axle weight rating, but some Chinooks might not be able to squeeze that in depending on how they are optioned or loaded. At any rate, no issue with a toad as they don't have tongue weight.
2) Much less noticeable to town than say, a longer tandem boat type trailer. It just follows you along, and while you do have to know you are towing, it doesn't "cut" corners and such like a longer regular trailer does. There is one area where it is worse than a regular trailer, and that is that you can't back up (which you can do with a regular trailer). So you have to plan your approaches a bit. There is the "ace in the hole" of being able to disconnect the toad and drive it over to the side separately in order to sort things out.
3) Of course the rear entry becomes a bit of a pain when towing something. I imagine you have the manual step, like I do. That's actually a plus because it's easier to work around for a hitch/tow bar. I sought it out for that reason (I also tow a trailer sometimes). You just have to flip the lower step up and leave it that way as long as you have something hitched up. Plenty of room to open the door though.
4) Still haven't decided just how to set up towbar. Most towbars nowadays stow on the motorhome, which for most people means it just sits there out of the way while in camp, and the car looks clean and uncluttered on the front (tow gear connections hide behind bumper of car). But... the rear entry means the tow bar does NOT just sit there out of the way. Either the bottom step has to be flipped up and the tow bar still there (maybe tilted to side), or you have to remove it (not technically hard, but they way close to 40# and are awkward. Not something I want to be fishing around to fit into the receiver hitch very often. There are (less and less popular) towbars that stay on the car (then you just have a normal little drawbar/ball to remove in order to flip down step), but then you do have a bit of "gear" on the car. Some do at least fold down flat vs. the permanent A-frame. On the other hand that can still be removed from the car and stowed, and then much easier to just put that back on the Chinook ball vs. fishing in the giant, 40# motorhome mounted tow bar. Jury's still out on that for me.
5) Braking system choices no different on the Chinook than any other motorhome, so not unique.
I towed a 2500# car on one trip without supplementary braking (because the braking system control for that car was on the motorhome of the car's owner, not on the car). (This is legal in some states but not all.) I was on a long, flat trip (through Texas). Seemed fine and could barely feel car back there. I'd have supplementary braking on any toad I was permanently towing though - just mentioning it mostly because of the fact that 2,500# car was "barely there." Unfortunately I can't find any 2,500# car that is not either out of my modern safety comfort zone (see above about texting, etc.) or has basically no ground clearance for exploring back roads. For a "civilized roads only" toad I'd have something like a Mini in a heartbeat. Fun!
I towed a 3,500# car on another long and mountainous trip. That had the supplemental braking on the car, so I had the use of it. And was happy to have it. Not that the car felt like too much, but it was not quite as much "not there" as the smaller car, plus there were a number of 6% or more downgrades (Colorado). On the other hand it's a car you can take on back roads and has good ground clearance (why buddy changed to it from other tow car).
I'm not sure if they are still traveling, but a while back I was reading a blog called something like "Full Time? No Way!" being written by a couple full timing in a 21' Chinook (dinette layout). After a year they did decide "yes way, but not without a tow car" and so they got a Jeepy jeep (not familiar with model names, but I mean the classic Jeep type jeep) and seemed to have a great time with it (they liked to camp in the boonies like I do).
These are just my thoughts. I've been Chinooking (and camper vanning) for years without a toad, so it's very doable. And there is the fun side of having everything with you everywhere you go! Even mundane things like the laundromat: You hang out in the parking lot "at home" while the stuff's in the machines, and then just bring it out.... right into your dresser!
Again, welcome to the forum! I hope you enjoy browsing around. And of course post as often as you like
Thanks for an excellent response, this is exactly what we were looking for. I am sure we will try it solo for a few trips and then think about it. We sold a very nice 17' Casita TT to purchase the Chinook and if we have to purchase a toad I don't think WE will have gained anything.
Re: Hello new owner
Welcome to Chinooking!
We have enjoyed our Chinook without towing and can go about 98% of the places we want. We decided rather than towing our Jeep we will rent a car when necessary on the road. I am in the process of setting up my utility trailer to haul (when needed) our kayaks. The Chinook is a pleasure to drive whether in town or on the open road. Ground clearance at the holding tank plumbing on the rear is my only concern.
With my previous motorhome (a 1993 24' foot Tioga class C Ford E350 w/460 V8) I towed a Jeep Wrangler for well over 40,000 miles. I also used the Jeep to haul our (2) 16 foot Kayaks. I did have to replace the transmission at just over 20K which may or may not have been related to towing. If you do tow I would suggest a Brake Buddy for the tow vehicle. I didn't have a braking system in the Jeep (my mistake) and really wish I had as the brakes on the E350 were lacking. (IMHO the E450 is a much better platform for a motorhome as suspension and brakes are both better.)
We have enjoyed our Chinook without towing and can go about 98% of the places we want. We decided rather than towing our Jeep we will rent a car when necessary on the road. I am in the process of setting up my utility trailer to haul (when needed) our kayaks. The Chinook is a pleasure to drive whether in town or on the open road. Ground clearance at the holding tank plumbing on the rear is my only concern.
With my previous motorhome (a 1993 24' foot Tioga class C Ford E350 w/460 V8) I towed a Jeep Wrangler for well over 40,000 miles. I also used the Jeep to haul our (2) 16 foot Kayaks. I did have to replace the transmission at just over 20K which may or may not have been related to towing. If you do tow I would suggest a Brake Buddy for the tow vehicle. I didn't have a braking system in the Jeep (my mistake) and really wish I had as the brakes on the E350 were lacking. (IMHO the E450 is a much better platform for a motorhome as suspension and brakes are both better.)
Steve aka SMan
2004 Premier V10
2004 Premier V10
Re: Hello new owner
Not saying anyone needs to do this, but just as a point of reference, one can replace the somewhat anemic E-350 brakes with much beefier ones by going to a 2008-and-newer front end. I don't know how the supply is now that fewer vans are being made, but when I got my new 2014 front end in 2014, it was relatively easy because they are removed from vans when the van is converted to 4 x 4. I had mine put on at Quadvan (they convert vans) and the experience was easy and even fun (because they do great work and are friendly). Depending on the condition of everything else, the cost is somewhat "defrayed" by the fact that you also end up with new suspension (which is also of improved design) new brakes, etc. What I mean is if those were something on the maintenance list anyway, you get those too. It's basically new everything under the front end except for springs, shocks, and wheels/tires. Looking at the brake parts side-by-side (when they were doing the job), I was somewhat shocked (in a good way) by how much larger the new ones are.SMan wrote: I didn't have a braking system in the Jeep (my mistake) and really wish I had as the brakes on the E350 were lacking. (IMHO the E450 is a much better platform for a motorhome as suspension and brakes are both better.)
I previously had an E-250 camper van (all up weight of around 7,500#) and on that the brakes felt fine (same as the original E-350 ones). But on my Chinook they felt marginal (even though everything was in good condition). Much more enjoyable with the bigger brakes. If a light turns yellow, I just stop.
I'd still use supplementary braking on a toad though - not saying to go without that. I'm liking the SMI Stay In Play Duo system, but there are many good choices. If not for the rear door, I think the motorhome mounted Ready Brake system looks nifty (tow bar and surge brakes in one). But I think I want something that isn't 40# to wrestle in and out of the receiver hitch all the time (meaning car mounted tow bar).
Just to summarize what I said above in perhaps too many words: My looking into a toad isn't about the Chinook being too much to drive anywhere (I've been happily doing that for a couple years now); but rather more about liking to set up camp in the "way back" (not that I'm four-wheeling or anything, but maybe just easing down three miles of rocky road at 10 mph) and then being able to zip in and out in a car, plus go explore some back roads. Even if I do get a toad though, there are plenty of times I wouldn't haul it.
I did used to have a small fiberglass type trailer. It was a great unit! But for me then I'd need a larger tow vehicle (for space mostly, because the small trailers don't have the carrying capacity to just load them up with supplies). Also I sometimes tow a boat, and then I wouldn't have my camper along because I wouldn't have the trailer. With the Chinook, I always have the main camping unit, and then can add or subtract "accessories" as desired (to date that has ranged from boat, to cargo trailer, to car - or, most of the time, just the Chinook with nothing in tow). But then you do have "two engines" some of the time, and whereas a good trailer can last 30-40 years (fiberglass, Airstream, etc.) a Class C will always age out due to having the cab/engine attached to the rig. But then I may want to be doing something else in a decade anyway
Just like boats, there is no universally "best" setup, but rather you choose your compromises.
1999 Concourse