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PostPosted: October 8th, 2017, 8:17 pm 
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Joined: June 26th, 2017, 9:38 pm
Posts: 116
Location: Southern CA
Moen has a very good customer service. For my kitchen faucet in the house, they send me a brand new faucet because I am the original owner with receipt, and the old faucet has corrode to beyond repair. They also send out replacement cartridge too.

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PostPosted: November 17th, 2017, 7:43 am 
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Joined: April 7th, 2017, 7:46 am
Posts: 4
Location: Central NC
Blue~Go wrote:

Drain the pump.



Hi Blue, others

Have a question about draining the water pump. This is my first winter owning the Concourse and I'm winterizing the supply side using the compressor I just bought. So far so good I think. Went around doing each faucet at a time until no more water, drove around some and did it again.

When I look under the couch I see water in the dome shaped filter attached to the water pump. I tried unscrewing it but it's too tight space-wise to get it fully off. My thinking is to unscrew the water pump from the floor and try to do it that way. I did take the outflow pipe off on the left side of the pump and some water drained out there. What do others do to get the water out of the pump? Also I noticed a white valve that can be turned very close to the water pump. Looked at the fresh water diagram in the manual but didn't see it there. Not sure what it's for.

Any advice is very appreciated!

Greattrails
'99 Concourse


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PostPosted: November 17th, 2017, 12:48 pm 
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Joined: August 8th, 2015, 11:54 am
Posts: 208
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
My 2003 Premier has heated gray and black water tanks. Is that sufficient to keep them from freezing?

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PostPosted: November 17th, 2017, 1:51 pm 
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Joined: July 13th, 2015, 7:07 am
Posts: 81
Michele and Norman...a belated welcome.

I'm sorry that I didn't see this thread earlier when you posted in October--more to say welcome than anything...my wife and I live in Boston area and own a 2004 Premier--dinette model. We make runs to VT quite frequently, as the Manchester/Arlington area is darn near perfect for biking those back roads and doing some fly fishing on the Battenkill. Have also done several extended trips (Smokies/NC, Gaspe Peninsula, Nova Scotia/Newfoundland, and Wyoming/Montana. Where are you in VT? We will certainly be back up there in the spring.

The only thing I don't think got mentioned in the discussion about winterizing, was about the hot water tank. You don't want to let any of the pink antifreeze get into the tank, so be sure to use the by-pass valves that are located on the lines leading to the tank (under the couch). Just wanted to alert you to the fact that if you are drained, or using any antifreeze in the lines, you won't have hot water available. To keep it simple when doing any winter camping, we keep antifreeze in the holding tanks, and use water jugs for dishes, drinking, cooking, and flushing the toilet. Can always boil up some water on the stove.

Safe travels.

David


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PostPosted: November 18th, 2017, 9:03 am 
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Joined: July 31st, 2014, 1:01 am
Posts: 1950
Location: 1999 Concourse
pdemarest wrote:
My 2003 Premier has heated gray and black water tanks. Is that sufficient to keep them from freezing?


I haven't ever used heated tanks, but I would think they would do that job. A few caveats though:

1) You pretty much have to be plugged in to shore power (unless you want to run the generator all night). Heating anything with electricity is a huge draw.

2) Ironically, the tanks are generally the last worry when it comes to freezing. They are a large volume, have straight sides, and there is lots of room for expansion. The only tank thing that might freeze are the valves, and I don't know if they are heated? (Although I haven't heard of anyone having an issue with permanent damage - they just have to wait to open/close them until they thaw.

3) The much bigger worry (to my mind), is the supply pipes - especially behind the shower and aft of that; but also the pump. And on the drain side, the shower trap (because it hangs outside and would be a REAL pain to replace. The supply pipes are small and don't always have room for expansion.

That's not to say the tank heaters don't heat the tanks as long as you are plugged in.

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PostPosted: November 18th, 2017, 11:31 am 
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Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Hey Blue - I did use the heaters earlier this year when we were at Grand Canyon. It got down to 15 degrees so I switched them on and had no problems. Agreed that the rig needs to be on shore power as anything that's 12 volts and uses resistance to heat will drain the batteries pretty quick.

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PostPosted: November 19th, 2017, 6:18 am 
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Joined: October 4th, 2017, 1:05 pm
Posts: 5
Hi All,

Call us crazy, but we have decided to live dangerously and not fill the lines with pink stuff. We will be a test run for all of you to bear witness to. We followed a YouTube post by RVGeeks (they have a big bus), and using a tankless air compressor, blew all our lines out, after draining the rig (the valves under sofa, and the removing the anode and draining the hot water heater). We then put pink stuff in the traps and some in the black water tank. After studying the average temperatures of our route, I have decided we will not hook up to water at campgrounds, as I don't want to risk freezing. We will haul water with us an use the campground showers. Of course, we won't know if this worked until we do hook up to water again. We have already had a blast of super cold weather here in Vermont, so if we made the wrong decision, the damage is done at this point. Keep your fingers crossed! I pray you all won't be wagging your fingers at us in the future!!

Michele & Norman

PS: One interesting mention--our local RV place --the young technician said another option to use for the lines is Vodka! Now, THAT is my kind of winterizing!

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'Vinnie' the 2002 Chinook Councourse


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PostPosted: November 22nd, 2017, 11:11 am 
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Joined: June 26th, 2017, 9:38 pm
Posts: 116
Location: Southern CA
They just wrap the heating pad around the tanks, but the pipe to the valves as well as the valves themselves are not heated.

I will read the label on antifreeze if I need to buy one.. If it says ethylene glycol, which is toxic, i will try to avoid. But some antifreeze used ethanol (~40% ethanol in vodka). No matter what freezing point depression agent they use in the bottle (ethylene glycol, ethanol, methanol, etc.), they are all toxic. The only "exception" is that most people can take ethanol at low concentration (relative to their body mass) without too much damage. You probably hear stories about people used the wrong type of alcohol in trying to distill the ethanol out, and end up with toxic drink that killed people.

There is nothing wrong with using vodka, but it is expensive way to go. There is a big sin tax that the government put on it. You can also used salt, but that will be bad for the RV due to corrosive nature of salt on metal parts. I think if the antifreeze used ethanol, they put something in it to make it difficult for people to distill/drink directly. In chemistry labs, they also have ethanol that is very cheap (a few dollar per gallon due to no sin tax), but they are denatured, meaning it has additives that they purposely put in with the ethanol to make it toxic/foul tasting/etc., to discourage people from drinking it.

So far, I have not need to worry about antifreeze yet.

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PostPosted: November 28th, 2017, 4:30 pm 
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Location: 1999 Concourse
chin_k wrote:

I will read the label on antifreeze if I need to buy one.. If it says ethylene glycol, which is toxic, i will try to avoid. But some antifreeze used ethanol (~40% ethanol in vodka). No matter what freezing point depression agent they use in the bottle (ethylene glycol, ethanol, methanol, etc.), they are all toxic.


I believe that typically RV anti-freeze for winterizing potable water systems is propylene glycol. Propylene glycol is theoretically non toxic. Ethylene glycol is used for engine anti-freeze and is toxic). Propylene glycol is oftentimes "the pink stuff" and comes in cylindrical gallon jugs that are not shaped like engine anti-freeze jugs (but not always; the stuff I buy is blueish and is -100 vs. -50).

Propylene glycol can be rather obnoxious to get out of the potable system (foams, tastes weird), so I'd still not put any in the water tank or water heater though.

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PostPosted: November 28th, 2017, 6:28 pm 
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Joined: June 26th, 2017, 9:38 pm
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Location: Southern CA
I completely forget about the propylene glycol. It is used as food additives, and considered to have very low toxicity. I never used pink antifreeze before, and I don't think I will ever need it. It was unusually warm last week, in the high 80's here last week, for example, and generally not doing trip to cold places. I think the nasty taste you have is due to the raw material from which the PPG is made from. For food additives, I will be surprised if they use the same material as RV antifreeze. Maybe I will need to do a taste test to find out. :lol:

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