Chinook RV Forum

It is currently December 14th, 2017, 7:09 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Banks Power Pack
PostPosted: April 8th, 2017, 4:17 am 
Offline

Joined: August 18th, 2016, 3:30 am
Posts: 44
Here is some company test data:

PowerPack® Parts & Pieces

Ford's V-10 is a popular and widely used motorhome engine. Banks works its magic by replacing the stock air-inlet duct with a Banks Ram-Air intake system consisting of a Super Scoop that draws in fresh air from a location just behind the grill, a formed metal transfer tube that replaces the stock plastic piece and a lifetime highflow Ram-Air filter with its own service kit. The result, according to Banks, is an improvement in airflow over the stock intake system.

To improve the exhaust side, the stock cast-iron "log" manifolds are replaced with Banks' stainless steel TorqueTube exhaust headers incorporating beefy 5/8-inch-thick flanges and tuned 1-5/8-inch primary tubes that merge into a five-tube, 3-inch collector featuring a device Banks calls a PowerPickle. According to Banks, the Power Pickle helps merge the flow from each primary tube into the collector and combines with a "rotational firing order" to scavenge the cylinders of exhaust gasses. Rather than changing the firing order of the engine, rotational firing order in "header speak" means that primary tubes of each header are arranged prior to the collector in the firing order of that bank of cylinders. This arrangement helps to "pull" the exhaust from the cylinders, rather than allowing it to escape under its own pressure. It's not a new concept, but it is a proven one, according to Banks.

Exhaust is then routed into a Banks Y-pipe that is shorter and straighter than the stock piece. The Y-pipe merges exhaust from both headers into a single 3-inch stainless-steel exhaust system, consisting of Banks' own acoustic-tuned Dynaflow muffler, a 3-1/2-inch Monster tailpipe and a 4-inch polished stainless-steel tip with right- or left-side exit available.

Finally, the stock EECV engine control computer's chip is enhanced with a Banks' OttoMind piggyback module, which mounts to an external port on the computer and recalibrates ignition timing parameters and air-fuel ratios to take full advantage of the intake/exhaust system modifications. Banks reports that this Power Pack system is 50-state legal per CARB E.O. no. D-161-57, and claims the setup is good for up to 50 hp and 65-lb-ft of torque, as well as an 8 percent improvement in fuel economy.

In the Lab

Banks invited us to the company's expansive facility in Azusa, California, to confirm these figures. Upon our arrival, engineering executive Peter Treydte took us around back to the computerized chassis dynamometer, where a 1999 Fleetwood Pace Arrow Vision awaited us. The testing, Treydte explained, would consist of three pulls to measure rear-wheel horsepower, followed by three simulated 0-60 and three 40-60 acceleration runs.

Next, we'd top off the fuel tank and embark on a 103-mile fuel-economy loop that would include a 6- to 7-percent grade that stretches skyward for four miles. The following day, the Banks Power Pack system would be installed, and the test would be repeated to determine the results.

In the dyno area, we were told that Banks initiates its testing at the top of the engine's rpm band (in this case, 4,600 rpm) with the transmission manually locked in third gear. The dyno then steps the engine down in 200 rpm increments to 1,800 rpm. Each step lasts 10 seconds, but only the second half of each step is recorded. According to Banks, this technique allows for the torque spike that occurs when the dyno makes each step: stabilizing the figures before recording them results in more accurate readings. Further, stepping the engine down rather than up "heat soaks" the engine, more closely representing the heavy load situation a motorhome may encounter when pulling a long grade.

Inside, the Pace Arrow looked like a mobile science laboratory. On the floor was a data-logging system that records a variety of inputs and can sample data 1,000 times per second—from coast to coast if necessary. Behind the driver's seat, we positioned a junction box from which the computer took all of its samples.

First we brought the engine up to 4,600 rpm, then mashed the accelerator to the floor until the pull was completed. After three pulls, we recorded the average: 181.9 hp at 4,408 rpm and 299 lb-ft of torque at 1,999 rpm.

Next, it was time for the acceleration testing. Based on the weight of the vehicle, aerodynamic considerations and a variety of other parameters, the dyno can accurately simulate 0- to 60-mph, 40 to 60, even standing 1/4-mile tests. As a rule, we do acceleration runs outdoors under real-world conditions, but that's not always practical. Dynamometer testing is sometimes preferred in metropolitan areas because a stretch of road long and straight enough to get a 20,500-pound coach up to 60 mph can be difficult to find. In addition, the dyno eliminates any variables, such as road undulations, wind gusts and, of course, traffic. The three 0-60 runs on the dyno yielded an average of 32.5 seconds. Subsequent 40-6- testing resulted in an average of 17.5 seconds.

Road Trip

On the highway, we were careful to keep the speed at exactly 60 mph (where possible) to maintain consistency. At a green bridge that marks the beginning of the 6- to 7-percent grade, the Pace Arrow was given full throttle to maintain 54 mph in third gear at 3,000 rpm. Roughly one mile later, at the predetermined landmark, the transmission downshifted into second gear, and speed dropped to 51 mph at 4,400 rpm. And by the top of the grade that pace had slowed to 49 mph at 4,300 rpm. When we arrived back at the Banks facility, the Pace Arrow had been driven 103.1 miles and had consumed 14.432 gallons of regular unleaded fuel for an average of 7.1 mpg.

Horsepower Comparison
Test coach went from 181.9 hp at 4,408 rpm stock (lower line) to 229.6 hp at 3,800 rpm with the Banks Power Pack® system installed. Best gain was 53 hp at 4,000 rpm.



Torque Comparison
Torque likewise increased from 299 lb-ft at 1,999 rpm (lower line) to 351 lb-ft at 2,809 rpm with the Power Pack® installed. Best gain was an impressive 70 lb-ft at 3,600 rpm.



Modified Coach Testing

Once the Power Pack had been installed, the Pace Arrow was back on the dyno. The results, to say the least, were impressive. Rear-wheel horsepower increased all the way through the engine's operating range, with a peak figure of 229.6 hp at 3,800 rpm (average over three pulls) and a best gain of 53 hp at 4,000 rpm. Torque likewise improved to 351 lb-ft at 2,809 rpm, with a best gain of 70 lb-ft at 3,600 rpm.

With such impressive horsepower and torque gains, you would expect a noticeable reduction in 0- to 60-mph and 40- to 60-mph timed acceleration runs—and the Banks Power Pack system delivered. The 0- to 60-mph times dropped an average of 6.4 seconds, while 40 to 60 times improved by 3.9 seconds.

When we got back on the road to repeat the fuel-economy loop, the first thing we noticed was the noise level. Inside, there's virtually no change in sound level or quality, and that's good for keeping the coach interior quiet. Outside, the exhaust creates a more authoritative, muscular sound quality, but it's still within the realm of the civilized exhaust performance.

Back on the grade, the Pace Arrow managed 62 mph wide-open at 3,450 rpm in third gear, and slowed to 58 mph at 3,200 rpm by our landmark, but did not downshift. By the top of the grade, we had dropped to 56 mph at 2,900 rpm, but the transmission remained in third gear.

Staying in a higher gear at a lower rpm reduces fuel consumption, and it showed. At the end of our 103 mile loop, the Pace Arrow had consumed 13.4 gallons of fuel for an average of 7,687 mpg, an improvement of 0.543 mpg, or 7.6 percent. (For more complete test results, see the charts.)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
background-color: #C1CAD2
 

 Post subject: Re: Banks Power Pack
PostPosted: April 8th, 2017, 5:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2015, 6:57 am
Posts: 592
Location: Northern NJ
Blue~Go wrote:
My buddy didn't notice any MPG change with his full Banks install on his V10 E-450, but he also has the broad side of a barn up top (typical big Class C with large overcab) and only gets 8-9 mpg anyway. Maybe with a more streamlined rig what the engine is doing is more important than the wind resistance (?) (Although on my 21' Chinook with stock engine the best way to improve my mileage is to drive more slowly on the highway (or take highways with lower speed limits), and I figured that was wind resistance coming into play (because if I need to take it out of overdrive to keep the RPM's up I already do that anyway).


Banks only talks about a 0.5 MPG improvement (assuming you don't hot dog it now that you have extra power - hee!)... and says that staying under 60 is the best way to improve mileage. As you say, wind resistance is the major factor, with RVs often losing up to 1 to 2 mpg for every five MPH over 55-60.

Still, the extra power sounds nice. Being able to zip up a long hill at 10 MPH faster than before could make a lot of difference depending on where you travel. Especially nice if you drive a lot on two lane mountain roads with traffic behind you!

_________________
1994 Concourse dinette, Ford 7.5L, wood & tile floors, tin ceiling, custom lighting


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Banks Power Pack
PostPosted: June 18th, 2017, 7:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2015, 6:57 am
Posts: 592
Location: Northern NJ
Jermanitor wrote:
I got the Chinook out today after the modification. All I can say is WOW!!! There is a tremendous difference in acceleration. I will report on the milage after a trip next week. :lol:


Hey, how'd your trip go? Any better mileage? How was the driving? How was the sound?

With all the hills where we live, I'm a bit jealous of your Banks setup, and would love to hear your current opinion of all your mods.

Thanks!

_________________
1994 Concourse dinette, Ford 7.5L, wood & tile floors, tin ceiling, custom lighting


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Banks Power Pack
PostPosted: June 19th, 2017, 2:14 am 
Offline

Joined: August 18th, 2016, 3:30 am
Posts: 44
The weather out west has not been good. ( very cold) We decided to postpone our trip. We are going to Montana in July, I'll let you know about the milage.
Acceleration is much stronger. It seems like the rig has awakened I don't notice the increase in the exhaust noise.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Banks Power Pack
PostPosted: June 19th, 2017, 2:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2015, 6:57 am
Posts: 592
Location: Northern NJ
Thanks for the report. so far.

If you get a chance, would you please tell us more about the installation? How easy to reach the exhaust manifold bolts, what roadblocks and subsequent fixes/hacks you had to do, etc.

Thanks again!

_________________
1994 Concourse dinette, Ford 7.5L, wood & tile floors, tin ceiling, custom lighting


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Banks Power Pack
PostPosted: June 19th, 2017, 2:46 am 
Offline

Joined: August 18th, 2016, 3:30 am
Posts: 44
As I wrote before, installation was very difficult. ( broken manifold bolts, access to the right rear bank on an E450, only able to use 1/4 inch drive, could not torque manifold studs)

"I was real lucky. Both bolts were on the the right rear bank. I got access by removing the center console. I was able to tap the studs with a hammer, Silicone spray, drill and ez out. (LOTS OF PATIENCE)

Reinstalling new manifold studs was very difficult. I had to use 1/4 inch drive long extensions, wable socket, air driver. After I got them as tight as I could and everything hooked up, I started the engine and let it idle for about 10 minutes and retighten the studs. ( I could not torque the studs) I hope it works !

I would not do it again! 2 days installation. "


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Banks Power Pack
PostPosted: June 19th, 2017, 3:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2015, 6:57 am
Posts: 592
Location: Northern NJ
Thanks again, I had somehow missed that previous descriptive post.

Back in my teens I installed many a set of headers in muscle cars, but these Ford van chassis give new meaning to the phrase "hard to reach."

Patience is definitely the key when working on vehicles that have been put together this long! You've also reminded me to go buy some anti-seize compound for any bolts that I install.

Kudos to you for doing it yourself!

_________________
1994 Concourse dinette, Ford 7.5L, wood & tile floors, tin ceiling, custom lighting


Last edited by kdarling on June 19th, 2017, 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Banks Power Pack
PostPosted: June 19th, 2017, 5:14 am 
Offline

Joined: December 31st, 2016, 5:57 am
Posts: 133
Quote:
these van chassis give new meaning to the phrase "hard to reach"

Almost sounds like it would be better to pull the engine out for these top-end projects :shock:

As for anti-seize paste, I found a nickel-based formulation works well for motorcycle header studs, particularly in alloy heads. Permatex makes one and claim:

“Protects metal parts from seizing and galling at temperatures up to 2400°F (1316°C). It is recommended where copper contamination must be avoided, under conditions of extreme pressure and temperature, and with stainless steel, titanium and nickel alloys.”

_________________
Ted C. / SW Arizona
"The Blue Chook" 2002 Concourse Dinette on 2001 E-350 chassis w V10


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Banks Power Pack
PostPosted: June 19th, 2017, 9:51 am 
Offline

Joined: October 12th, 2015, 5:54 am
Posts: 250
Location: Santa Cruz
kdarling wrote:
Thanks for the report. so far.

If you get a chance, would you please tell us more about the installation? How easy to reach the exhaust manifold bolts, what roadblocks and subsequent fixes/hacks you had to do, etc.

Thanks again!


Kev, you and I probably have the same motor. I installed Thorley headers on mine. There's a little more working room with the single-cam V8 460 (and two fewer cylinders), but needless to say the job was absolute murder. Very advanced and very laborious, but I'm still glad to have done it. Have you checked your passenger side rear-most manifold screw? It might be missing its head. Easy to check with the doghouse off.

_________________
1994 Premier


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Banks Power Pack
PostPosted: June 19th, 2017, 12:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2015, 6:57 am
Posts: 592
Location: Northern NJ
Scott wrote:
Kev, you and I probably have the same motor. I installed Thorley headers on mine.


I will check my manifold bolts. You and I need to talk about 460s. Maybe another thread?

_________________
1994 Concourse dinette, Ford 7.5L, wood & tile floors, tin ceiling, custom lighting


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group