E-350 Transmissions (specifically, E4OD and 4R100)

[Blue~Go]

Before I had my transmission work done, I was trying to figure out which transmission I had (E4OD or 4R100) and it was a bit confusing as to how to ID the transmission for sure. So I thought I would post here in case it might help someone else.

There is a letter in the VIN that refers to the transmission, but in the case of a "family" of transmissions that has had a few different generations, it only points to the family and not the specific one. For example, the 4R100 succeeded the E4OD and they both share the same letter code in the VIN. My 1999 E-350 (Chinook Concourse) has a 1998 chassis, and from what I read that was the change-over year, so I could theoretically have had either model. As such, the letter code in the VIN did not help (because the same letter code was used for both transmissions, since one is an evolution of the other).

(The 4R100 is basically an evolution of the E40D, with more electronic controls, as it was explained to me.)

My previous 1997 Ford E-250 (non-Chinook) had the E4OD. That was a given as I understood it, because 1997 was not a change-over year (by which I mean, a change-over year could have had either one).

As it turns out, my 1998 E-350 chassis (under my 1999 Chinook Concourse) has the newer, 4R100.

How did I find out? I read any number of ways, from counting pan bolts to looking at the VIN, but none seemed to pinpoint it for sure. However, there is an ID number/letter code on the side of the transmission itself, and that WILL tell you exactly what you have. IIRC it is on a tag, although it has been some months and I can't remember for sure. For example, the code on mine is "F8UP-CA."

This website will translate that, although it's not the easiest reading:

http://elvparts.com/wordpress/for-trans ... -listings/

Looking on the above website, I found I had a 4R100 transmission. I suppose my 1998 chassis was made later in the year as it was put under a 1999 Chinook (this is fairly common as the coach builder's "year" does not necessarily match up with the auto maker's "year").

As it turned out, when I went to a repair shop, this is exactly how they figured out which one I had (they didn't use the linked website, as they had their own place to call, but they did use the ID tag on the transmission).

So, although there may be another way, I would recommend looking at the tag on the side of the transmission, especially if you have a 1998 chassis, of which some got the older E4OD and some got the newer 4R100.

[Manitou]

Awesome write up. Thanks for this.

[Scott]

Hey Blue,

Thanks for the info. I would think it would be a lot simpler than that!

If you don’t mind me asking, what service did you do?

I’ve read some good and not-so-good things about both of these transmissions. Do you have any specific experiences or other information that you can share in terms of maintenance and/or symptoms to look out for?

[Blue~Go]

Scott,

Yeah, I was surprised too - that it wouldn't be "easier" to find out which transmission one has. I guess the main challenge is because they don't change code letters in the VIN when one transmission "evolves" into another one.

I had the E4OD in my previous rig and never a hiccup. I towed with it too. A buddy owns it now and still no problems at around 180k. The 4R100 in my Chinook had a problem when I bought it, despite low mileage and a grandpa owner who babied it and stored it indoors.

Short version:
A problem that made a ticking noise and turned out to be a dislodged snap ring in my 4R100. I had that repaired, and then since I was "in there" and at a great shop, had many more things made stronger/better, because... why not.

Longer version: I thought I had posted this here before, but I can't find it so maybe I didn't. Anyway, here is the story:

I knew going in that the transmission might need some attention at some point.  Not that they are substandard, but I had read too many accounts of them being rebuilt on vehicles with 60,000 miles or so to think they were "bulletproof."  I never had any problems on my previous rig, as noted; but I would not have been surprised if I had.  Same with any Chinook I would buy.  Hope for the best, fix it it something happens, roll on, was my feeling.

However with my new-to-me Chinook, push came to shove a little sooner than I had hoped.  When I first test drove it, ten feet into the drive, I heard a "ticking" sound that made me think of a car low on oil (lifters).  I pulled over and checked the oil... all was fine.  It seemed to correlate to rotation, so I thought maybe something with a brake or wheel.  At any rate, the next day I had it fully gone over at a "fancy" Ford Dealer in a large city.  I called out the ticking noise as something I specifically wanted checked.

They found a few things, and I negotiated those with the sellers.  Then ensued a completely aggravating service experience - not with the mechanical work I had done, but with the tires (which they also did).  What clowns!  I won't go into details, but only mention this to somewhat explain how, when they dropped the ball on the ticking sound ("could not reproduce" - even though it never went away, to my ears), I let it go.  At that point I just wanted to get the heck out of there, with my Chinook in one piece!  Making it worse is I was away from home base, during an unseasonable cold snap, etc.  I figured I'd get myself home, and then figure it out with known mechanics, at my leisure, etc.

When I noticed that I could also get the ticking noise to occur in Park... I knew it probably had nothing to do with brakes or wheels.  Hmmm.  Well, as you have probably guessed by now, it was something in the transmission.  I ruled out the torque converter based on the symptoms, but that's about all I knew.

My next stop was at a renowned shop that is a "real" shop (they even have a full machine shop on the premises).  They work almost exclusively on RV's (just the mechanical and drive train part), and even do their own engine rebuilds, etc.  I had most everything brought "up to my baseline" there (fluid changes, generator service, wheel bearings, repair cruise control, repair malfunctioning power door lock, etc.).  Ahhh, felt like a new coach after that.  I had no reason to believe the maintenance was not done properly before this, but I like to start out with my own known baseline, as I'm usually in it for the long haul, and just like to know where everything stands.  They did catch an issue with the wheel bearings and with one brake caliper, so that was good.  No problems had occurred yet, but they could have.

Finally we came to the ticking.  This is when we figured out it was coming from the transmission.  Okay, that wasn't great news.  I was still glad I had bought this Chinook, because it had been stored indoors all its life, and the interior and exterior were cosmetically pristine, which is my main criterion (because those things are the hardest and most disruptive to deal with, in my experience).  Based on this and relatively low mileage, I just figured I'd tackle anything else that came up.  Of course that didn't mean I wanted to find a ticking transmission.  Visions of all the shady transmission shops you hear about danced in my head.

I was completely accepting of the need for a new/rebuilt transmission.  Not thrilled, but my attitude was "Let's just get 'er done, and then I can enjoy the rig, and not worry about a noise."  The funny thing is, the shop was sort of lukewarm about it.  Oh, they would have done it, no problem.  But they were saying things like "a lot of them sound like this, it's normal," "we can't guarantee a new one would not do the same," and that sort of thing.  This didn't fill me with excitement about having them do it, so I decided to leave it alone until I could do more research.

Then I went into high gear online, and with some phone calls.  I was already convinced it was not "normal," as my E40D never did that, and neither did any of the other (quite a few) rigs I had driven with the E04D or 4R100.  I did NOT want to face this at the side of the road, with "who knows who" transmission shop in the middle of a trip.  Likewise, I didn't want to worry about it during the "you could probably go another eighty-thousand miles and be fine" time period.  If it needed to be done, let's do it now and I can enjoy the fruits.  Worrying (or even thinking) about it would take the fun out of it, and I have an RV for enjoyment.

I'm sure there are many great transmission shops, but finding one is the key.  I found two that specialized in the 4R100, and sounded like gurus (in the good way).  One was around 4 hours' drive from my then location (the other was in the SE US).  This was John Wood Automotive, in Holtville, CA.  He builds 4R100's for everyone from 1,000 hp monster machine trucks, to RV folks like me.  I called him up, actually thinking my rig might be a bit "boring" for him and he might not even want to take it on.  To my pleasant surprise, he said "Oh no, I like working on rigs like yours, they don't all need to be Super Trucks." He explained that there was a good chance he could simply rebuild my transmission (vs. me buying a different one) since I had such low miles (under 50,000).  Of course it would depend on what he found.  I made an appointment for two weeks hence, and away I went.

Away I went into the bowels of the desert in May.  HOT.  But they made it as pleasant as possible, and I was able to plug in and stay in my rig (I stayed over one night).  They were very open about letting me watch, explaining everything, take photos, etc.  A big bonus to me.

A bit of background on John:  He started working for Ford right after high school, and specialized in rebuilding transmissions.  He worked there for ten years, and of course developed a good sense of what went wrong, and which things went wrong repeatedly.  He had ideas for how to improve things.  Ford maybe wasn't super excited about making the various changes he suggested, so he just kept working there and rebuilding/repairing them. But after ten years he decided to start up his own shop, so he could put that knowledge to use and do what he knew would make the transmissions better.  This was around twenty years ago, and his shop has been doing a good business ever since.  I think he could rebuild one in his sleep.  He has had more employees in the past, but now it's just him and one assistant (also a good guy).

John drove it, heard the noise, and agreed it could not be the torque converter (because it made the noise in Park, but did not make it when in gear, but sitting still with foot on the brake).  He said if I was lucky it might be this one particular snap ring that can come loose.  I showed him the photo of the magnet in the pan from when the previous shop had removed it to change the fluid.  There was a supposedly normal amount of metal shavings on it (according to the previous shop who said the noise was normal), but John said "No, that has to be coming from somewhere," which made sense to me!  I never saw any metal on the magnet in my previous car, even at over 300,000 miles.

Next we drained the transmission (there went all my new Mobil 1 fluid from the other shop... darnit!), and removed it from the Chinook and wheeled it into the shop (strapped to a gurney like a patient!).  It "rested comfortably" overnight, to be started on first thing in the morning. By this point I was excited because I wanted to see what was in there!  We had also discussed the fact that I wanted the transmission not only repaired, but "beefed up" appropriately to be better than new.  We outlined what we would probably do, subject to the investigative surgery results.

First thing in the morning we ("we" being John ) tore into it.  It was the snap ring!  It was lying half outside its carrier, looped up in a big helix shape, and had been digging itself  a groove in the outside of its carrier.  There was the source of my metal.  John said I was actually lucky, in that typically when that ring gets loose (which it does with some regularity, more on that below), it will grab the ring below it when you shift in or out of overdrive, and at that point you are dead in the water (mine did make a weird sound when I used the button to shift in or out of overdrive...).  Thank goodness this had not happened.

He then went on to explain a bit more:  On the Super Duty, (truck) the ring sits in a definite groove.  But on our (van) version of the transmission, there is only a set of dimples to hold the ring in place.  Not as effective.  So he machines a groove into our transmissions to make it like the Super Duty and then goes a step further and installs locking snap rings (the stock ones are not locking).  This was all done to my transmission while I watched (cool!).  At this point my problem was fixed, but I wanted it better than new as long as it was out of the Chinook.  John explained that he doesn't just make every transmission "ultimate" in the same way.  It depends on what you are using it for, your priorities, etc.  So we talked about what he would recommend for the Chinook, and I had him go ahead and do it all.  Included were these (I may not have them all described perfectly in transmission guru terms, but this is the gist anyway):

1) Machine groove for snap ring and install locking snap ring(s).

2) Rebuild pump with heavy duty components.

3) Replace torque converter with heavier duty one that John has a shop build specifically for him with certain design improvements.  I have more details, but this post is long enough already!  Anyway, the new one is heavier duty and will cool better.  I was concerned about if it would make for rougher shifts.  I don't need a marshmallow, but it is a "house" and I was happy with the stock crispness and shift points, for the most part.  Happily it feels just like it did before, but I know it's better inside.  Perfect combination.  My original torque converter had a drain plug, but newer ones don't.  However he orders them with a plug, so I still have one.

4) Replace overdrive planetary with heavier duty one.  Plus some clutches.

5) Replace original pan with Super Duty pan which is slightly deeper, uses a larger filter, and has a drain plug (original did not have drain plug).  This does not affect ground clearance.

6) Synthetic fluid.

As a separate thing, I also had a larger transmission cooler installed in place of the original. It wasn't running overly hot before, but I like to see it running nice and cool, even when towing and/or heading over mountain passes.  As long as it does not run too cool (under 110º) then cool is good!  Side note: I still have never been able to detect any real increase in temperature with the spare tire mounted on the front, but even if it was making any difference, things are extra cool now (yay!).  It's fantastic not having the tire right next to the door (and blocking the locker) on the rear, and the weight transfer to the front was beneficial.

It's been 1-1/2 years and around 18,000 miles since these upgrades were made, including towing in hot weather with plenty of high mountain passes.  So far I'm thrilled!  I always knew I might have to rebuild or improve any 4R100, and I was initially "not thrilled" to have it be sooner rather than later (especially when I had heard the noise BEFORE buying it), but in retrospect I'm glad it played out as it did.  I was able to plan the repairs in controlled fashion, and do them more or less on my schedule (as opposed to from the side of the road in who-knows-where).  And I get to enjoy them for the whole time I drive the Chinook.  As a side bonus, the cost was about half of what I was ready to pay at the second shop for a remanufactured transmission (which, while it would have been fine, would not have been as good as what I ended up getting).  And although it took me two days, it's typically only one day's work, and I was able to stay overnight in their lot, plugged in.  I would recommend going in winter though!  Unless you like highs of 109ºF

[Scott]

Thanks Blue. That was a very informative post, as usual. Thanks for all the great information!

[Blue~Go]

Well, this is proof that at least one person made it through the post without dying of old age or boredom

[Concourse]

I'll add that there is some drivetrain information of the drivers door jamb sticker.

Date: 10/03
GVWR = 10,700lb
Front GAWR = 4600lb
Rear GAWR = 7800lb  Dana 70, 10.5”, 4-pinion Power-Lok
EXT PNT = YZ  Oxford White Clearcoat
RC = 86
Wheelbase = 138 inches  11.5’, this WB was for both Reg & Extd vans
BRK = C
Int TR = XE
R = 5
AXLE = E2  Power-Lok limited slip differential, 4.10 gear ratio
TR = E  transmission, Automatic E40D (this is a 4R100)
SPR = V6  Front = V — 5310 spring (Econoline), Rear = 6 — 5560 spring (Econoline)

[Blue~Go]

Yes, and the transmission code is included in that sticker. BUT the problem (in this case) is that the E4OD and the 4R100 transmissions have the same letter code (which is "E"). So you can't tell from that which one you have. Evidently Ford considered these two to be the "same" transmission, letter-code-wise, because the 4R100 was an evolution of the E4OD. Hence the need to identify some other way (tag on side of transmission) if you want to know which one you have (I needed to know for my beefing-up work, plus just wanted to know). Especially if you are anywhere near the transition years ('98 or so).