Furnace removal from Concourse

[Blue~Go]

I wasn't sure whether to put this in the appliance section or the project/mod section - chose the project/mod section since that's how I think of it in my rig.

Anyway, I decided to remove the stock propane furnace from my rig. My reasons were as follows:

1) I virtually never use it. Not that I don't use heat - I do! But I don't like noisy, "blowy" heat. Not only do I not like the sound (wakes me up) but I feel toasty/hot when the furnace is running, and then cold when it shuts off (not specifically this furnace, but all similar furnaces). The stock furnace also uses a fair bit of battery power for the fan.

2) When I have hookups, I use a small electric heater.

3) When I'm boondocking I don't want the battery draw (or the noise, etc.)

4) I plan to use a Wave 3 catalytic heater when boondocking (with all proper ventilation precautions). No battery power, silent, radiant heat (my preference).

5) The furnace was relatively easy to remove and store away safely (off the rig), and it will be easy to reinstall should I or a future owner ever want to.

6) Given that I didn't really use it, it was occupying prime "bulk" space for storage (vs tiny cupboards), in a place where extra weight is not bad (ahead of the rear axle, at floor level). Hated to see that going to waste!

7) Side benefit is that I can easily use the 12 volt power wire to make a "charging station" for my 12-volt items (phone, computer, etc.), and it will be right at the table where it's handy.

Okay, so with that preamble, here we go. Before I started, I shut off the propane outside the rig, and then lit the stove until the flame went out on its own (remember to turn the stove burner off after this). Then I removed the fuse in the fuse box that goes to the furnace wiring. Of course this should only be done if you feel comfortable with the process, and I can't say for sure your rig is the same, what your skill set is, what risk there might be, etc. etc.

My rig is the "Club Lounge" layout, and the furnace is under the forward club chair, in an upholstered "box." You may have noticed that these chairs are a bit higher off the floor than standard chairs would be. I think that's because the furnace dictated the height. But it looks like they tried to get it as low as possible, and so the furnace is in a recessed bit of floor, and hence cannot be pulled out through the door to the seat box. Instead the seat box needs to be removed first, then the furnace removed, then the seat box put back. I can tell you that whomever had to install the seat box (after the furnace was in) must have drawn the short straw that day at Trail Wagons. Those screws are a bear to reach!

I imagine the dinette layout would be somewhat similar, albeit there may be more working room.

There seems to be a three-photos-per-post limit, so I will continue in subsequent posts.

First of all, I opened the "door" to the forward seat base. You know how the door to the rear seat base pulls open with a handle? Well the forward "door" is in the same place but just held in by clips. It can be gently pried open with a flat bladed screwdriver or etc. Then it can be tilted down and forward, but is still held in by one of the duct hoses (of which there are two). So the first step is to unscrew the duct hose from the sides of the brown plastic vent. I have already removed the hose in this photo, but this shows the screw that held it on (I just put it back without the hose on it).

Next I removed the screws holding the other end of the vent hose (to the furnace).

There is a similar vent in the rear side of the box; I removed that similarly.

[Blue~Go]

These are the vent holes with the vents (there are two) removed. I replaced them just for looks after I was done so there would not be unsightly holes. I simply put all hose fasteners back in them for safekeeping.

Now comes the fun part , un-fastening the seat box from the wall and floor. There are screws around the perimeter base strip, the vertical strips on the wall, and the upper strip on the wall. They are all Robertson drive. I groan about it but they didn't take that long to remove. It was just awkward and hard to reach with the furnace in place. You can tell by the screw angles that they were putting them in in the same awkward position.

[Blue~Go]

Next I tilted the seat base forward (toward the couch). This can be done pretty easily, and there is no need to remove the club chair from the box. Now there is room to work!

Then I disconnected the wiring, and taped off the wires so nothing could touch while I was working (although fuse was removed as well).

There are power wires (the thicker ones) and then the thermostat wires (thinner ones). There is also a set of wires (I think they are out of the photo) that are in the same general area by the wall, but clearly don't go to the furnace but instead go down through the floor with the gas line. I don't know for sure, but believe these go to the propane tank (perhaps for the vent hood control panel meter).

One caveat is that I'm not positive whether removing the thermostat wires will affect the air-conditioner. I do know from reading Glenn's blog that when he removed his air conditioner, he had to have some wiring re-connected/differently (?) in order to use the furnace without the air conditioner in place (the 4-button "control center" apparently feeds both). The reason I can't say is that I also removed the air conditioner (that would be a separate post).

I plan to use the power feed wire that went to the furnace (not the thermostat wire, but the power wire coming from the fuse panel) to wire up a "charge center" for all my 12-volt devices (cigar lighter/USB). Will be handy right by the table/desk.

Next I disconnected the propane line (it is a 3/8" flare fitting, takes a 13/16" wrench). There was not even a whiff of propane when I did so, although of course I had no sparks or open flames around (and the propane was shut off at the tank - that's important!). Then I capped it off with a 3/8" flare cap that I had purchased in advance. Flare fittings just tighten to seal (no "tape"). I then turned the gas back on and tested the connection with soap/water. No bubbles and no leaks. I then turned the gas back off and re-bled the system (by burning out a stove burner as before) for the duration of the project (turned it back on again after all was put back and done). This propane line and cap will show in a later photo.

Then I removed the two fasteners holding the furnace to the floor (right in front at bottom) (Actually you can see I did this before the wiring, but either way will work fine.)

After this the furnace was "free" from the rig. That said, the way it fits onto the exhaust fitting, is that it simply slips over tubes that project into the rig from the exhaust fitting. One of the tubes projects into the rig/furnace by about 9", so you have to sort of wiggle/pull the furnace straight out until it clears those tubes (see later photo).

[Blue~Go]

Next I removed the furnace from the rig, packing it up with protective wrapping for potential future re-installation. This included the furnace, the duct hoses, and some fasteners. Now there is even more space to work in.

A side view showing the intake/exhaust fitting. You can see why the furnace has to be wiggled out "straight ahead" to clear the longer tube.

I don't have photos of this next part, but I (later in the day) removed this fitting from the outside of the rig, capped off the tubes (so no insects or water could get in) and then reinstalled it with new bedding compound (the old putty was a bit tired anyway). It was pretty straightforward (I used circles of galvanized flashing plus butyl to seal them off). I may order an entire new intake/exhaust fitting and then saw off the long tube. This way I could not have the long tube in the way, but also have the "stock" fitting for future potential furnace re-installation.

Next is a photo of the underseat area with the furnace removed. The section that is "raw" plywood is a bit lower than the rest of the floor. I believe this was so the furnace could be as low as possible, so the seat box wouldn't have to be any higher. It could easily be filled in to make a level floor, although I have left it as is because it happens to hold a storage box I have perfectly. The black J shaped thing is the wiring inside the protective loom. It's totally flexible/movable but just happens to by lying where it is in the photo. You can also see the capped off propane line to the right. This lies in a fairly protected area along the right side of the seat box once it is back in place. Of course one could shorten it to completely get it out of the way if desired.

After this I reinstalled the seat box (so much easier without the furnace in the way), and then reveled in the new storage space! Sweet!

[Blue~Go]

After the chair/base are re-fastened to the rig, the front "door" to the compartment snaps back into clips inside the boxes just by lining it up and giving it a thwack. I have gear stored here that I don't access super often, but I still think I'm going to convert this door into a hinged/handled door to match the other seat box and make for easier opening. It would work just fine even with the furnace back in place. I found a wooden handle/pull online that looks like a great match for the stock one in my rig (there is currently one on the rear seat base and also one on the under-couch "door." Here is a link to that handle.

http://www.rockler.com/surface-mounted-drawer-pull

And a photo:

The hinges (as on the couch base and the other seat base) are a typical RV item; I happen to have a spare set on hand. I will need to put in a slightly larger wooden base strip at the front of the compartment to mount the hinges on (as it is in the other box). However it's fine as-is - just a little less easy to open the box face, since you have to slip something in the crack and pry gently. Another option (which I may do so as not to take up "sliding storage box space" with the hinges is to just mount the handle but keep the clips instead of adding hinges. That would make it much easier to open/close the compartment door and would make it possible to get the door completely out of the way for maximized access over hinges.

Once the seat box, etc. are back in place, everything looks stock and tidy. Except there is a huge new storage space (and a furnace in storage to be put back in whenever desired). And a spare 12-volt power wire to use for charging station or etc.

I have a Wave 3 heater to use when boondocking. I haven't yet decided whether to mount it to a wall or to keep it on the portable legs with a quick disconnect hose so I can move it around the rig. Once I make that decision I will either use the furnace gas line to connect it, or possibly put a T/valve in one of the other lines (depending on what is more logical).

My rig may not be exactly the same as other models/years, but I figured this might be of interest to anyone else with a Chinook. It's possible I left out/forgot a step, so please feel free to ask if you have any questions.

[Astrodokk]

Nice work. I haven't used the furnace yet so I don't even know if it works in my '78. But I have the Mr. Heater Buddy that uses the small propane canister, and in my other rig, it was awesome. I may just take out my furnace too for the space!

[Blue~Go]

I've only had my Chinook since January, but I previously had a Class B with a similar furnace, and I never once used it (even though I did use the rig in cold weather). So I kind of knew my use pattern. The decision was made easier once I saw that I could literally put the furnace back as good as new with about two hours' time.

I think the one time I might have potentially used it was on a cold morning to heat up the rig more quickly (albeit somewhat loud and blowily). Then I would have taken over with the Wave 3. For the number of times this *might* happen (and it never did in my Class B) it wasn't worth it to me to give up the storage I knew I would use constantly. 'course everyone is different.

[kyidletime]

Thanks Blue, I can always count on for some useful, and in depth information. Actually though I had read your previous post on removing the furnace. My rig is a Concourse with the dinette setup so the actual installation and removal were a little different. I did get the furnace out and am currently working on it. I'm giving it a good cleaning and trying to quiet the fan down a little. I have the fan removed and have energized it on my work bench and it seems to be running smoothly and reasonable quiet. Next I am going to hook up a small LP tank to it and see if I can get the intermittent burner operation figured out. If I can get it operating properly and a little more quietly, I will probably reinstall the furnace, even if I don't use it. Although I'll have to admit that the extra storage space would be nice too.

PS I don't know why I posted in the "around the campfire" section, if I knew how to do it I'd switch it to the general Chinook group.

Alan

[Blue~Go]

Ah, okay, I forgot you had the dinette. I bet it was a joy to remove compared to the Club Chair's little box. I'm curious: Does yours have the lowered floor where the furnace sits? On mine they cut a hole in the floor plywood and then put more plywood under the hole so they could gain some inches of height. Even with that though, the Club Chair seats were higher up than a normal chair would be (in other words, shorter legged people's feet would not touch the floor). Maybe they didn't need to do that in the dinette because they could control the cushion height (whereas the club chairs were obviously purchased Flexsteel items).

Anyway, what a good idea to put it on the workbench. And now that you know it goes in and out, you can always choose to use the area for storage with the option to put it back at a future date. That's what I did. I sealed off the intake/exhaust tubes with metal and butyl tape.

I've been reconsidering an installed furnace just because I'm lazy and could flip the thermostat from my bed (would mount it someplace I could reach it). Was looking at the Propex because it's hardly bigger than a shoebox. Not quite as many BTU, but I would almost rather it just run than heat up/shut down/heat up/shut down. I'd probably use it just to quickly blast the rig (without getting up!) and then switch over to the Wave heater I already have.

I do have a lot of stuff stored in the area that used to have the furnace. I find the main thing "missing" from small RV's and boats is larger, "Square" shaped areas. There are always lots of little cubbyholes and that sort of thing. And the furnace area is the spot that can most use the weight (passenger side/forward).

[kyidletime]

The removal of my furnace wasn't too bad, if you don't mind standing on you head, just kidding. In answer to your question about the recessed floor, no, mine doesn't have a recessed floor. I did have to do a little sawing in order to get the furnace out. There was a 2x4 brace for the seat support board that I had to cut out (will replace it). There just wasn't enough room ti=o get that furnace out with it in place. No big deal!

I got my furnace cleaned and it isn't loud at all with the fan running sitting on my workbench. I'm thinking that most of the noise when running in the RV is from the way it is mounted, I'm going to try a few things when I put it back in.

ps..... thanks for getting this in a more appropriate place.