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PostPosted: March 19th, 2017, 4:07 pm 
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Location: Northern NJ
Thanks, guys.

Yeah, mine is holding mostly junk. Like others, I'm pondering making a cabinet in the corner instead.

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PostPosted: March 19th, 2017, 6:37 pm 
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Location: 1999 Concourse
Hoosier mentioned possibly re-purposing some of the spice cabinet on the stove side. I haven't done that exact thing, but since I doubt I'll be putting the original oven back (of which the cooktop ran right back to the outside wall), I have put up a little "spice shelf" on the wall over the stove counter. I just measured it and it's 17" high (off the counter), about 7" deep, and there's a bit over 10" above it (to the underside of the upper cabinet). I just cobbled it together from scraps, but I find it quite useful. Has small fiddles to keep things on it. I use it for a few things that used to be in the spice cabinet, plus a mini pan, and some etc. Because it's not over the burners, things on it don't get hot.

Right now I'm just using my one burner portable stove on the stove counter (which I always carry anyway in case I happen upon a salmon to cook outside at the picnic table), and I haven't decided yet whether to go back with a one-burner or two-burner cooktop, or a two-burner cooktop with an oven. Ovens are great but I found I seldom used mine, and I could have a couple of huge deep drawers instead. In any case, I'll have 10" or so at the back of the counter to play with (so could add another shelf or...).

The newer three-burner ranges in RV's bug me (my original '99 one included) because I basically never use three burners, but I MIGHT use two if they didn't put the single burner in the front and the two at the back :? Given that arrangement, I found myself always just using the front one (especially back when I was doing the "microwave cabinet limbo").

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PostPosted: March 19th, 2017, 7:44 pm 
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Location: Indiana
Blue~Go wrote:
The newer three-burner ranges in RV's bug me (my original '99 one included) because I basically never use three burners, but I MIGHT use two if they didn't put the single burner in the front and the two at the back :? Given that arrangement, I found myself always just using the front one (especially back when I was doing the "microwave cabinet limbo").


Yep... I'm installing this recessed, 2 burner with a lid (SMEV Dometic) which will be located on my new countertop which is extended to the closet wall (where the fridge was located). With the lid down it provides additional counter top space, in the up position, it's a back splash.
Attachment:
SMEV 2 burner.jpg
SMEV 2 burner.jpg [ 49.88 KiB | Viewed 173 times ]

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PostPosted: March 20th, 2017, 11:29 am 
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I really like the SMEV, and that one is on my "if I go with a two-burner" short list (which consists of that one or a Dickinson). I like your taste in refits :D

My list is as follows:

One-burner:
a) Smev one-burner
Attachment:
Smev 1 burner 1.jpg
Smev 1 burner 1.jpg [ 488.51 KiB | Viewed 168 times ]

b) Seaward Princess 1273 one-burner (a black glass type unit which is no longer made but I happen to have one in my parts stash).
Attachment:
Seaward one-burner.jpg
Seaward one-burner.jpg [ 7.18 KiB | Viewed 168 times ]


Two-burner:
a) The SMEV you show.
b) Dickinson drop in. It doesn't have a cover like the SMEV, but instead is recessed and has a cutting board that fits in the recess and makes it flush-ish with the counter top. The cutting board isn't in this photo but just imagine a wooden board fitting down into the trim ring. The pot clamps can be removed (more for boat use cooking underway).
Attachment:
Dickinson 2-Burner-Drop-in small photo.jpg
Dickinson 2-Burner-Drop-in small photo.jpg [ 207.52 KiB | Viewed 168 times ]



Two-burner with oven:
One of the Force 10 two-burner ranges. These are soooo nice (had one on a boat), and come in like five different sizes. I like the cooktop part better than any other ones (the way the grilles are, the one simmer burner and one higher output burner, and.... just everything). Plus of course an oven and a real broiler element. BUT, I really don't need the oven, and it blocks off a LOT of storage.
Guess I'll have to put this photo in another post, due to the three-photo limit (can we change that?).

I think I'll like any of them better than the original range, not that it was horrible or anything. Also (I can't remember if this applies to the SMEVs or not), I like that the marine units (Dickinson, Seaward, Force 10) have the feature that if the flame is not on, the gas will not flow (if one needs a "safety reason" to upgrade, feel free to use this to your advantage :mrgreen: ) I've never had a flame blow out (but it could), however one time I went into my buddy's rig (he was outside) and the whole thing REEKED of gas. As it turned out, three of us were in the rig chatting previously, and he was standing up and sort of leaning on the range countertop area, and he'd inadvertently turned one of the stove knobs. On the RV style stove, this allows the gas to flow. Combine that with a less-than-sharp sense of smell (him) and .... gas-a-palooza. It happened again a few months later and after that he bought a Force 10 3-burner range (he has a larger rig). That of course re-kindled my appreciation for those. Dern! They are expensive and I really don't need an oven. But, but, but...

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Last edited by Blue~Go on March 20th, 2017, 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: March 20th, 2017, 11:36 am 
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Just for completeness, here is one of the Force 10 two-burner ranges. They also make three-burner versions. Each version comes in like six different sizes (American Standard, American Compact, European Standard, European Compact, etc. etc.). They will all be valved to work fine in North America, but it gives one the chance to fine tune the width, depth, etc. because they are all slightly different. My buddy went with (IIRC) the European Standard three-burner -- and that fit just about exactly into the typical Attwood sized hole (if anyone is going to do this I can double check).

I like the two-burner as one of each size burner is right up front, and then the rear of the counter can be used for something else, and there can be shelves or a cabinet on the wall that are not above the burners. There would be some potential storage space behind the shallower oven, but nowhere near as accessible as if one went with just a cooktop, and then big, full-extension drawers (or doors) beneath the countertop. The pot clamps and rail can be removed, so the "claptrap" you see on top doesn't need to be there on an RV. Also, some of the sizes come with a trim kit for non-gimballed mounting (which we used to do my buddy's).

Oh, the best thing compared to the RV stove? SO EASY to light the oven. Just press a button and it lights (it uses a sparker with a battery, not the "clang clang" twist to spark type knob, and this sparker lights the oven as well). There is a "real" broiler element in the top of the oven. Bring on the toasted cheese!

Drat, now I'm talking myself into one of these again :lol: Well, I'll probably go with just a cooktop, but we'll see.

Attachment:
F102burnersa.2.jpg
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Of course all that said, I'm cooking on a Seaward portable butane one-burner at the moment :lol: Still getting the meals done though!

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PostPosted: April 14th, 2017, 11:31 am 
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Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Just got my 2003 Premier back after having my new 12/110 volt fridge installed. Now I'm on to my next project which is changing out the sink (a shallow double bowl) for something more useful and definitely deeper. When I looked under the sink to see the plumbing I noticed that the drain pipe is mounted fairly high along the side and disappears towards the rear of the unit. I like the idea of a higher countertop and now it appears to be necessary if I want a deeper sink without reworking the whole drain pipe.

Is it possible to put in a deeper sink WITHOUT raising the countertop level?

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PostPosted: April 14th, 2017, 3:15 pm 
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There are a few options. As you correctly noted, maintaining the slope is key. Technically, I think drain pipes are supposed to either go straight down, or slope between 1/8" and 1/4" per foot. Slopes between those two aren't as good because liquid "runs away" without solids. (Obviously this is even more important with toilet drains...).

That said, although the drain slope from the sink trap to the area by the fuel fill was in the correct range, after that it slopes more than 1/4" per foot, but less than vertical. I don't put a lot of solids down the sink, so it hasn't been a problem. Anyway, just mentioning that as background (and obviously in an RV it can be affected by how level your rig is).

So for me, I had to do some mockups after I had the original sink out. I also wanted to position the trap a bit differently so that it would be less in the way of a drawer. I planned to make my countertop 34" from the plywood subfloor (which is around 1-1/2" higher than stock in my rig). So I did gain a bit there. OTOH, if I went with a sink much deeper than 6-1/2" and/or the drain wasn't at the rear, it could become an issue. So I had to just mock things up and juggle them around. One tip is that ADA versions of sinks often have the drain at the rear vs. the center, which means you don't have to keep going as far (so you don't run out of slope).

Another option is to re-do the drain pipes and lower them slightly. Mine came up to clear the fuel fill, but they cleared it with more room to spare than necessary. OTOH, that means cutting drain piping that's kind of half behind the shower, so a bit of a pain.

Another possible option is a Hepvo trap. That might or might not save you anything. I've been meaning to ask them how/if they work for people like me who oftentimes just put a trickle of water down the drain (vs. a "heavier" rush of water). I'd LOVE to put a Hepvo on the shower drain, so it wouldn't siphon when traveling, but getting under that seems like a really painful chore. And the sink doesn't have that issue.

Anyway, back to the kitchen sink. I came up with a few that would work for me without major change to the drain plumbing. I was already doing some change because I wanted a single bowl sink vs. two dollhouse bowls. I don't like super deep sinks so that wasn't a problem except it's hard to find any that aren't a mile deep these days! Also there is the issue of depth (front to back). Many common sinks are around 22-1/2" in that dimension and that's too much for my setup. OTOH, boat sinks are often *too* small in that dimension (like say 15" front to back).

A few I put on my short list:

1) Blanco Rondo in stainless. Around 18-1/2" diameter (round), 6-1/2" deep, and the drain is at the rear.

2) Elkay LR2219. ADA versions have some depth and drain location options. Is a square around 22" wide and 19" deep. Has ledge for faucet so that doesn't need to be added to the total. Just also makes a similar sink.

3) Blanco Precis. Really nice, faucet can be off to side, built in drainboard. But quite heavy, so probably off the list.

4) IKEA has a couple that could work, although some of them seemed a bit cheapish (thin metal, etc.). I strongly considered the Hallviken in black though, as it was a good size. They now have the Narrsjon, that might work (but they never give the depth :x and it looks deep). It has no faucet ledge so you'd have to figure that in as well.

For me, when it came down to it, I decided I probably didn't want a black or composite sink. Stainless is durable, shiny, and relatively lightweight, which puts it back to the top of my list.

BTW, if you do want to re-do any of the drain plumbing and haven't done so before, ABS (the black pipe they used) is pretty easy to work with - just make straight cuts, de-bur, and plan things out before gluing. Then support it afterward. Some municipalities don't allow ABS in houses, so in those places it can be a bit harder to find, but usually someone has it. You can use either regular or "tubular" plumbing for the first section coming off the sink bottom.

One last tip. When my remodeling project was put on hold, I put the original counter and sink back, but attached to my newer plumbing run. Thus I ended up with a relatively straight (albeit) short run of tubular plumbing before the trap. This vs. a straight vertical shot into the trap. I know this is fairly common in houses (for example, with a double sink there is a flattish run to the trap from one of the sinks), and the original Chinook had this somewhat too, but I'm going to be VERY sure to have my new sink's tailpiece go vertically into the trap. Reason is I often use minimal water to conserve, and that resulted in that "flattish" section of tubular plumbing before the trap getting a bit gunky. Yuck. I took it apart and cleaned it and now am careful not to put certain things down the sink for now. In my end design that piece will be gone and the single sink drain will go straight down into the trap (which is where the "odor sealing" starts).

BG

PS: If you have a Concourse, the front-to-back dimension of the sink is not so critical, if are willing to give up the "ell" (having the sink section do that makes for lots more sink front-to-back room). In my case, I like the ell, so I plan to move the whole ell out about 1-1-/2" (so it butts up to the molding on the outside corner of the shower), but I wanted to maintain the ell's "ellness."

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PostPosted: April 15th, 2017, 10:13 am 
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Thanks, Blu. After I sent that email I went out to my rig and did more assessment of the situation and decided against major changes to the drain line. Seems like raising the countertop would give me enough space for a sink deep enough to actually wash something larger than a shot glass. My existing two-bowl sink is only 5 inches deep and as you've pointed out too small to fit most pots and pans so even some of the 7 inch deep sinks would work better. I'm also set on getting a sink with enough holes on its ledge so I can have built-in dispensers for dish soap and hand soap; We currently store both in the sinks when traveling and they inevitably leak and make a mess, and once camped the containers take up valuable counter space. I also want a faucet that includes the handheld function. Because we camp with our kids and grandkids doing the dishes is a big job and the current "bar sink" doesn't do the trick. An advantage of adding a countertop on top of the existing one is I get to change the surface material to something lighter. My Premier came with a gray covering on the ceiling, of course lots of wood and then the cab was dark gray everywhere. I had the door panels, doghouse and lower dash painted with a special vinyl paint in a buckskin color and put a matching dash cover on to make the interior brighter. Any remodels will give me a chance to continue to lighten up the interior. I'm even considering covering the ceiling "mouse fur" with a white or off-white vinyl to lighten that up as well.

Anyway, I'm waiting for my contractor/cabinetmaker guy to have enough free time to work on the rig. Took out the tv and vcr and need him to turn the tv opening into a door using the matching wood panel that the tv sat on and on the other side just closing off the VCR hole with the panel that the VCR sat on (I will eventually put in a flat screen but its low on my list). Once my guy is free I'll discuss the raised counter remodel with him to see if he can do it.

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PostPosted: April 15th, 2017, 12:17 pm 
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One certainly can't argue with raising the counter. 32-12" just doesn't cut it! That's one plus of the Premier: With the separate, smaller sink window they did raise the counter. I found that I can get 34" from the bare floor (which is more like 35" from the carpet top, not that I'm keeping the carpet), and that's much closer to the "standard" household 36". I even considered going higher, but then the space between the counter and the upper cabinets shrinks. I'm not too tall, so 34" is great.

So with the Concourse long window, you'll want to consider how to handle that area. I haven't got mine completed yet, but have a pretty good idea what I'm going to do. Essentially, the counter surface will be juuuust below the trim (clamp) ring of the window (because that ring needs to be able to come off for any repair or re-bedding of the window). Then I'll do a sort of mini-backsplash that sits on the counter and is removable (the section in front of the trim ring anyway). Depending on how the sink lines up, I may hold this in even a bit further to give a separate area for the curtain. I'll have to see how that goes as I do it. On the mini bulkhead that divides kitchen from couch, I'm keeping the "divider" feature but just making that all one piece, vs. a lower piece with an extra board for the riser that sticks out (and juts into my back when I read on the couch). At any rate, that piece just has a little notch cut out by the wall, again to make room to get the window clamp ring off, plus a place for the window treatment to fall. Yes, I'm greedy. I want a reasonably high counter AND my long "panorama window." :D

BG

PS: Speaking of the cab, that wood overlay was not my style (to put it mildly). For the dashboard piece, I just removed the screws and took off the wood, which left the factory dash insert, but with some holes around the perimeter (there was no glue or anything). I was going to find a new stock piece at a junkyard, but then for the time being I just put the screws back in the holes. However I then decided it looked kind of cool with the black mini-screw heads. Steampunk dashboard! The dash feels much more "relaxing" to me visually without the woodgrain. On the door pieces I removed the ones on the armrests, but may "wrap" them and put them back, or someone else on here Plasti-dipped them. For now I have them safely packed away in a special tub (I'm getting quite a few of these tubs of removed parts :lol: ).

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PostPosted: April 16th, 2017, 6:08 pm 
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pdemarest wrote:
I also want a faucet that includes the handheld function.

Speaking of which, today I swapped my stock chrome faucet for a brushed nickel version with pullout stream/spray function. (Both are really plastic I think.) About $30 plus shipping from eBay.

Took about an hour. I blindly reached behind the sinks under the counter to remove the old, but got smart and actually stuck my head under there with a light to put in the new. The main time consumer was unscrewing the original cold side pipe which was on super tight and had limited space to work with. I also at first accidentally installed a rubber one way gasket/valve in the wrong direction. Other than that, pretty easy, just takes a little patience:

First, turn off the pump and open all faucets in RV to drain pressure. Use pliers to loosen the hot and cold pipe connectors. Then finger remove those and the two faucet nuts that hold the unit to the sink. Replace with new faucet and reverse the process along with screwing on the new center hose and its weight to pull it back down. (I wrapped most of the hose several times around the drain pipes because I didn't need very much spray hose extension, and I also wanted it held up above my under sink storage drawer.)

Oh. One time saver I lucked out on without knowing about it ahead of time, is that the Chinook sink already had the necessary three holes in it, even though the stock faucet only used the outer two.

Here's the old, and two pics of the new:
Attachment:
File comment: old faucet
image.jpeg
image.jpeg [ 66.55 KiB | Viewed 110 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: new faucet
image.jpeg
image.jpeg [ 79.53 KiB | Viewed 110 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: new sprayer
image.jpeg
image.jpeg [ 90.06 KiB | Viewed 110 times ]

P.S. it also rotates side to side like the original, so you can put it over the second sink. There's a pusbutton toggle control under the rubber piece at the nozzle end that flips between stream and spray.

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