Under Dash Wiring Diagram for 95 Chinook Concourse

[kyidletime]

In answer to your questions: (1) No, there is not a disconnect switch on the left side drivers seat. (2) I don't know what wires are supposed to be connected to the battery disconnect switch. One wiring diagram that I've seen shows a three post switch (look at the 4.1 diagram in the 98 manual) in that diagram it shows a blue wire and a red wire connected to the bottom 2 posts of the battery disconnect switch, and another wire running thru led warning light. My toggle switch has only 2 posts. The other thing with that switch, on the frame that holds the 2 switches, it say "store" at the bottom of the disconnect switch. The emergency start switch has a red wire and an unidentified wire running to the smart solenoid. Do I have one?
I wish that the 95 manual had a similar diagram to the 4.1 diagram in the 98 manual.

Are we just confusing each other or do you think that we might be making some headway?

[Blue~Go]

I think we're making headway

I think the '98 is almost identical to mine ('99), and thus it is different from yours by quite a bit. So I think I would go by the '95 manual and what you can see/test on your rig.

Just to explain a bit further:

The '98 has house batteries (two) in an outside compartment below the water heater. It has a Surepower 1315 "smart" solenoid. It has a panel on the overhead of the cab with a bank of switches (fog lights, emergency start, generator start, "store" (which is basically the house battery disconnect from house loads which they mean for you to use when "storing" the rig). Much of this is controlled through a SurePower LVD (low voltage disconnect) box which is ahead of the couch, which you don't have. So really, similar intent, but much different implementation in '98.

So, that's why I say if it were me, I'd go by the '95 diagram (which shows the two solenoids and the house battery where you have it), and then figure from there. I think it would be helpful at this point (to me anyway!) to have a diagram (or labeled photo) showing which color wires are going to the two switches on your dash panel. For all we know it's working fine, but I'm like you, I would want to know (and I would be suspicious at this point), and I'd want to LABEL those wires. Right now I'm feeling the need for a labeled diagram or photo.

I know it seems confusing, but we do have a number of things going for us:

1) We have the '95 diagram, even if it isn't exactly like yours. It looks close.
2) We know the basic intent of Chinook.
3) You are interested and willing to check things out.

I will just re-mention an alternative IF you wanted to, which is that you could just make this all simple and manual. OR, you could wire in a more modern solenoid. Kind of depends on how you like to do things.

Actually, since you have both batteries under the hood, the manual switch and wire run could be quite simple (short = simple due to the fact that long runs require running them, larger wire, more chafe protection and securing, etc.). Mind you, I'm not trying to sell you on this idea, but just offering alternatives. What you would do for this is just bypass/disconnect (no need to remove at this point) all of the solenoids and associated wiring. Then run a cable (you could potentially re-use the red #4 if it is long enough) from the positive of the start battery to the positive of the house battery. Somewhere in that run, you put in a Blue Sea switch. I'd also add fuses (safer). It would be simple to put the switch under the hood, but then you'd have to open the hood to turn it on and off. Might be a pain, or might not be a big deal if you check things anyway. Or maybe you could run the wires in through the firewall and have the switch under the dash. That would be super handy. In this case, a manual switch would be doing exactly what your solenoids are doing (combine/disallow combining/combine to jump start), but in a manual way (the solenoids are "automatic").

A more modern solenoid could also be put in, but at a slightly higher cost. Best not under the hood, but OTOH these all came under the hood, so it would be no worse.

Or maybe what you have is working fine, or just a few short steps away from working fine. OTOH, it's sort of old tech, so if it's NOT working maybe you'd want to change things up.

In the long run, you might also want to have a larger house bank, which would mean moving it (and a whole 'nother project scenario!), but I get that you are just sorting out how you might use the rig, and that may never even come into play.

If it were me, I'd give the current setup a chance, but it wouldn't take much for me to abandon it and start fresh. That's just me though.

In any case, we're talking about some very basic and clear functions here. THAT part is not confusing. What's somewhat confusing (but ultimately I think decipherable) is figuring out what you had stock, and what you have now (and whether you want to stick with that exact implementation).

I'm adding a photo here, just to show you what I have now. I've changed a bunch of things around, and this is just a temporary working setup while I make some further decisions, but it gives you the idea (more below the photo).

Now, you wouldn't necessarily do just this (this is under my couch, along with three AGM house batteries), but I just figured you could at least see a different setup.

The plastic "box" half out of the photo on the left is the main battery fuse. So a wire comes from the house positive to this first (safety), then on to the switches. One wire goes to the red switch, which is my house disconnect (disconnects all house loads from house batteries). The thing partially out of the photo on the right is a DC fuse block (house loads). The red switch either allows the fuse block to be connected to the house battery or disallows it.

The black switch is taking the place of your two solenoids, and of the Surepower 1315, and of a Blue Sea 7622 (which all do about the same thing). The wiring is simple: A cable goes from the positive terminal of the start battery, through the fuse on the left (safety again), to one of the terminals on the black switch. A cable goes from the other terminal on the black switch to the positive terminal on the house battery (the negatives are connected via chassis ground, as usual, so mostly the positives get talked about and shown).

When the black switch is "on," then the two banks are connected (house and start), and I can jump start, and/or the Ford alternator can charge the house bank. When the switch is "off," then the two banks are separated, and neither of those things can happen, but also neither can I accidentally run down the start bank when camping. Your solenoids, the Surepower 1315, or the Blue Sea 7622 do the same essential thing, with the Blue Sea 7622 being the best and most efficient (more than the 1315 anyway).

The small red and black wires on the right side of the black switch are just little LED lights to remind me when the switch is "on." A red flashing LED in the coach (since I want to have the switch off when camping), and a green solid LED on the dash (since I typically want them combined when driving).

One change I will be making in my permanent setup is to have the black switch accessible from the driver's seat. Much easier that way.

With either a Surepower 1315 or a Blue Sea 7622, or your two solenoids, they basically go where the black switch is. Then they add smaller wires for the "little" dash switch, a light, or etc. Big cables provide the function, and small wires give the extras.

I don't know if this helps or makes it more confusing. If more confusing, then feel free to ignore!

Too, we can just go back to the simple task of seeing if your current setup works, and/or fixing it so that it does. I'm not "set" on you changing things at all - just thought I'd show you another setup.

[kyidletime]

I really appreciate all that you have done thus far in helping me to try and figure out my system. I also appreciate you sharing your system with me, it looks great. But, for now I'm going to continue trying to get the wiring hooked back up to my two switches and see if it works. One question though, if I do connect the wiring to the dash mounted battery disconnect switch do I need to take the manual switch under the hood out of the system?

[Blue~Go]

Edited to add: I just noticed on the Yahoo! forum (and maybe forgot here since the thread has gotten long) that your dash switches have NO wires hooked to them. Well then I guess they can't be doing anything, can they.

I have more thoughts on this taking this into consideration, but I'll put them in the NEXT post, and leave this one as-is for now.


********

Okay, sounds good. So we have a mission: See if your original setup is working, and if it isn't, see if we can make it so.

I think if it were me, the first thing I would do is some simple tests to see if things ARE working. There are a few ways you could go about this, but given that old wires can be stiff and recalcitrant, here is what I propose. First, unplug rig overnight to let batteries "settle" out in the resting stage.

1) To test jump start switch ("emergency start") (right solenoid as facing it from front of rig).

a) Engine not running
b) Take a volt meter (if this is something you haven't done, just let me know) and set it on 20 volts DC (if it is not auto-ranging). Put one lead on the house battery positive post, and one lead on the house battery negative post. Record the voltage. Then do the same on the start battery. Then, have an assistant hold the "emergency start" switch on for a minute and while continuing to hold it (but don't start the engine), re-check your voltages. Presuming that they started out slightly different, have they evened out at all?

2) To test automatic combining function (left solenoid).
a) Again put volt meter probes on house battery positive and negative, and record (or remember) voltage reading.
b) Start vehicle and read the house battery terminals again while engine is running. Presuming your alternator is functioning, you should see something like 14 volts (whereas before it was probably like 12.8 or the like).

3) To test automatic separating function (left solenoid).
a) Again put probes across house battery and note voltage. Also do start battery.
b) Put on some loads in the rig (lights, fan, etc.). Say for half an hour or so.
c) Shut them off and then check both batteries again. What you would want to see is that the house battery voltage has gone lower, but the start battery voltage has remained the same.

4) To test "Battery Disconnect" dash switch. Turn it off. Then try to run various things in coach. See what works and what doesn't (I would suspect most things would not work, but detectors, maybe porch light would work.

5) Do the same for the manual switch under the hood. Probably no coach things should work.

I don't see any problem having both of the latter switches. You'll just have to know that they can cancel each other out and keep track. What I mean is, if you turn off the one under the hood, then turn ON the one on the dash.... it's not going to do anything. You'd have to turn the one under the hood on, then the one on the dash would be able to do its thing. But other than that (and barring anything really weird in the wiring), I don't see a problem.

How about doing those things - if you're comfortable with them - and then posting back with the results? If these are things you are not comfortable with, then of course not.

[Blue~Go]

Okay, so I read back to the beginning of the thread, and you did say that the wires were all disconnected from the dash switches. I had lost track of that, sorry.

However, you do say that one solenoid (presumably the right one) has a blue wire attached to it, and the other one (presumably the left one) has a purple wire on it. These do agree with the diagram from the '95 manual. So it's possible that you could "manually" energize the solenoids and see if they work. Maybe they don't even work, and that's why the wiring is disconnected (of course we don't know yet).

One note is that the left solenoid, probably is not controlled by any switch, because it looks like it is the automatic combine/separate for when you are are driving or camping, respectively. That likely has no switch because the whole point of it is to be automatic.

So the right switch, may very well not have anything to do with those two solenoids, if it is as we suspect, the house battery load disconnect switch. That might be the function of the third solenoid (because a tiny switch and wire like that, wouldn't by itself, be a main battery disconnect. It would have to be controlling a relay/solenoid/bigger switch. But this doesn't seem to be shown (or I'm not seeing it) in the manual.

Sorry if this seems confusing, but I'm not a pro so maybe not the best at explaining it. Hence my caveat if you don't feel like attempting this yourself.

[kyidletime]

You gave me some good advice on how to test different aspects of my system. I will try to get things tested out and will let you know what I find. I'm not sure when I might get around to it, but for the time being I'm going to continue trying to figure out how to properly connect those two switches. I am going to try and find that 3 post switch to replace that toggle switch though. I'll reread what you have told me, but I think that you have already told me which wires should be connected to the emergency start switch. The blue and red wires.

I'll keep you posted.

[Blue~Go]

Sounds good.

Another thing you might try is simply using an ohmmeter to test continuity between the two trigger wires (blue on right solenoid; purple on left solenoid) and the various wires in the vicinity of the switches under the dash. In other words, with the meter set to read ohms, put one lead on the blue wire at the solenoid (perhaps remove it from solenoid terminal) and then the other lead on various wires under the dash and see if any of them have no resistance (i.e. continuity). You'll probably have to extend the test leads with lengths of wire, just so they reach.

It's like there are two things here: Which wires make the connections, and then.... do the things work (or were they disconnected due to malfunction anyway).

Will be interested to see how you make out.

[kyidletime]

We were thinking along the same lines. I got out my trusty volt meter and some jumper wires and started testing continuity on all of the loos wires under the dash. This is what I found: They gray wire goes to the newer solenoid under the hood. I'm thinking that it might be a starter relay. The blue wire connects to the solenoid on the right of the pair. The orange wire which changes to purple under the hood, connects to the left solenoid. The yellow wire connects to the positive post of the house battery. The red wires are hot wires and the white wire is to ground. All of these wires are 14 gauge, although, the orange and yellow might be 12 gauge. There is also a red with black stripe wire both under the hood and under the dash, loos on both ends, looks to be maybe 18 gauge.

I don't know whether this helps to determine the connections to the 2 switches or not. It's food for thought though.

[Blue~Go]

Sounds like you're making progress. It's funny (in a frustrating way!) how few folks seem to have '95's (with your style electrical setup). Or maybe that particular setup was only in use for a couple of years. Seems like at least 1997 to 2005 basically have the same style, with just a few changes. Doesn't make it easy for you, so I applaud your testing and figuring.

[kyidletime]

Actually, I think that some of the Chinooks prior to 95 were basically the same, but it appears that most of them must have gone to the big campground in the sky.