GCWR?

Anything that goes behind your Chinook, flat, trailer, toys.
Bill
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GCWR?

Post by Bill »

I have a 1999 Chinook and I am trying to figure out my gross combined weight rating. This is not posted on the door so does anyone know this information or have any idea where I can obtain it?

Thanks
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kdarling
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Re: GCWR?

Post by kdarling »

It's in the back of the owner's manual. See the forum's Reference section if you don't have one.

Here's the 1998 version:
image.jpeg
Towing something? Tongue weight could be more important, due to how closely loaded to the rear limit that most Chinooks are.
1994 Concourse dinette, Ford 7.5L (460 V8)
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Blue~Go
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Re: GCWR?

Post by Blue~Go »

Agree with kdarling. My Concourse has an 18,000# GCWR and there is no way I could touch that without grossly overloading other (important) ratings.

For example:

- GAWR-Rear (gross axle weight rating, rear axle). My Chinook is relatively light, and even so my rear axle is pushing the rating when I'm towing a 4,600# trailer with 330# of tongue weight (for a gross combined weight of around 11,500# [oops, faulty math on this detail; make that a gross combined of around 14,500#] ). Reason is that when not towing, my rear axle is around 6,800# (or a bit more when fuel tank full). The 330# of tongue weight translates to an added 550# of weight on the rear axle. So there I'm at 7,350# on a 7,500# gross axle weight rating. Can't see how I could tow another 6,500# [make that close to 5,000# due to math correction above]!

- Hitch. I think the hitch is probably only set up for around 5,000#, but I can't remember if I "know" that or just think it. Maybe it's 6,000#. In any case, I can't imagine it hauling 8,000#, which is about what it would have to do to reach the GCWR.

So why does the 18,000# GCWR exist? Well my guess is that since Ford is the one who makes the rating, it exists because they are selling and rating a stripped chassis only. For all they know it's going to have a flatbed on it and nothing else. If that were the case it could maybe make that rating without crushing the other ratings.

It was the same situation on my previous camper van. No way to even come close to the "tow rating" without going ridiculously far over a few of the other ratings. But then Ford had no idea it would be a camper van or how heavy the conversion would be. For all they knew it would be an empty cargo van or super light conversion.

I do find that the Chinook tows beautifully (minus some rear-door annoyance); but I figure 5,000# is probably around the upper limit. Maybe not even that with a single axle trailer that runs a 10% tongue weight. A toad car four down has basically no tongue weight, but there is still the hitch to consider.

To know for sure on an individual rig, I like to visit the scale and get real numbers (for which Oregon is my favorite state, with Washington a close second - free and easy access to public scales!).
Last edited by Blue~Go on March 29th, 2017, 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kdarling
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Re: GCWR?

Post by kdarling »

Thank you Blue, as always, for filling in some explanatory details and examples :)
1994 Concourse dinette, Ford 7.5L (460 V8)
lhalbert
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Re: GCWR?

Post by lhalbert »

Hi All,

Yes - this thread is a few years old, but I am just reading it now. Our 1997/1998 Concourse has similar weight rating numbers (18,500 - an unrealistically high for the RV GCWR; 7500 rear axle; 3800 front axle).

In reading Blu-Go’s detailed reply - if you are still on the forum or if anyone else can explain - there is a reference to towing a 4600# trailer, but having a rear axle weight of 6800#...without the trailer?..

I haven’t found a CAT scale to go to and will need to do that. But, until then, has anyone towed a Fiat 500 manual transmission 4 wheels down? The curb weight of the Fiat is 2366#. Add tow bar and equipment to the Fiat for towing 4 wheels down. We would also want to add a double hitch so we could tow the carry our two bikes...figure total of bike carrier and bikes is about 100#.

Thoughts on the Fiat 500 as a toad 4 wheels down?

Thanks,
Lee-Ann
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Blue~Go
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Re: GCWR?

Post by Blue~Go »

Hi Lee-Ann,

You shouldn't have any issue with the Fiat in terms of weight. Reason is with four wheels down there is no tongue weight, hence little-to-no added weight on rear axle. Then you are only talking about pulling (should be fine, but watch RPM's and shift out of OD as required to keep them above around 2,000 unless coasting along; and you might monitor transmission temp too).

I would recommend some sort of toad braking, and you will probably to consider how the car's towbar baseplate height matches up to Chinook.

When I tow my car (3500#), its Blue Ox baseplate is at 16.5" above the ground and with a Roadmaster Falcon tow bar (with Blue Ox ends) it matches up nicely with my Chinook's receiver height. This is key as otherwise you need an extra piece that raises or lowers it. A piece that lowered it would tend to drag on the ground (to solve car lower than Chinook), and a piece that raised it would be in the way of the step (to solve car higher than Chinook). It's enough annoyance just having a tow bar + rear door. I have the manual step and need to have the lower step flipped up with the towbar in (or you can remove it).

You can look up baseplate height for your car on, say, Blue Ox's site. Well, I got curious so I looked up a 2019 Fiat 500 Blue Ox baseplate. Tab height is 12.5". That may be a bit low (4" lower than the one on my car), but then your Chinook receiver height may be lower than mine. Mine sits kinda "up" in the back. You can do some measuring and also check Roadmaster baseplate height. I prefer the Blue Ox but they are both reputable.

Ideally the tow bar sits level, but different tow bars have different allowances for allowable mismatch. And different ones sit differently vis-a-vis your receiver opening.

https://www.blueox.com/baseplates-sorti ... _model=500

I tried one of the car mounted towbars, but I found it too annoying rattling around on the front of the car whenever I drove it anywhere.

BTW, when I bought my Chinook and it was stock (and fairly empty), the rear axle scale weight was 6,880#. Now it is less than that (not empty) but that's because I've removed some of the "excess flour" from the sack. It is very good to get a scale weight of your rig. Note status of tanks when you do because, for example, the gas tank (>250# when full), grey tank (~300# added to axle when full), and black tank (125# when full) can make a big difference. They are all behind the rear axle so add a bit more weight than actual to the rear axle (leverage).

When I tow a normal trailer (has tongue weight), about 325# on the trailer ball equals 550# added to rear axle weight (long overhang leverage).

PS: Also the Fiat may have lowish ground clearance but that's only an issue if you like to take it places where that matters. I bet it's a hoot to drive! It's hard to find a manual transmission anymore (so sad).
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lhalbert
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Re: GCWR?

Post by lhalbert »

Thank you for all the good info! Yesto taod braking. Towing is new to me - i had a slude in truck camper and needed to understand weights for that - but i never towed w/it.

I get concerned about the 6800# rear axle weight if i am towing. My guess is that the toad is not calculated as part of the rear axle weight; rather, it is part of the GCWR.

My hope is that the 500 will not be too low. And finding a manual 500? We are traveling from SC to MI to get it. The Fiat main office could only find 2 of this model in the eastern half of the country! My husband drives a stick but i have very limited experience w/one. 40+ years of driving - time fir me to get comfirtable w/it!

Lee-Ann
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Blue~Go
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Re: GCWR?

Post by Blue~Go »

lhalbert wrote: May 22nd, 2020, 2:26 pm
I get concerned about the 6800# rear axle weight if i am towing. My guess is that the toad is not calculated as part of the rear axle weight; rather, it is part of the GCWR.
Towing four down basically adds Zero tongue weight. Zero tongue weight means no additional weight on the rear axle.

Now, you should weigh your rig. Because you may have 7,600# on the rear axle (overweight). But towing four down won't change that. It's different when you are towing a trailer because there is tongue weight, but a four-down car is self-supporting. You are pulling the weight but not "lifting" it.

A good guess is that you'll be around 10,000-10,500# with the Chinook. So rather than butting up against GCWR (you will be way short of that), it's more "real" things you will want to keep an eye on. How are your RPM's? (Don't lug with them too low by running in overdrive when needing any oomph.) What about coolant and transmission temps? Brakes and tires? Because you'd have to fill the Fiat with lead to get anywhere near GCWR. BUT real life things can be straining even when you are "in spec" (see trans temp, etc.)

I highly recommend a Scangauge II (or equivalent) when towing. I've linked to a thread about it just below this paragraph. Without it you are sort of running blind (will warning lights suddenly come on two seconds before damage?). With it you have exact numbers (degrees F) for coolant temp, transmission temp, and RPM's also (plus other options). It's easy to set up and then you are done monkeying with it unless you want to. Basically plug and play, no hunting for wires or anything.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=44&p=14432&hilit=scangauge#p14432
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lhalbert
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Re: GCWR?

Post by lhalbert »

Thanks Blu-Go for the Scangauge info. Found the data port location, as seen in the photo. This is being added to the “must have” list. I also just realized you gave the Blue-Ox link for the exact toad we are getting...thank you!
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Blue~Go
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Re: GCWR?

Post by Blue~Go »

Glad it helped.

I mentioned this above, but if you are at all inclined to research, just know that all combinations of baseplate and tow bar are not equal. Of course some are at different quality levels, but what I mean is that each car and RV will work a little differently with various combos. I'll list mine as an example:

--- I wanted a Blue Ox baseplate. The reason is they have a nice, tidy system whereby when you are just using the car as a car, nothing sticks out in front and in fact the baseplate only shows if you know to look for it. I previously towed a friend's car a few times and it had a Roadmaster baseplate set up, and there was a big bar across the front of the car at all times and it seemed much more fiddly. I believe now that Roadmaster also has hidden style baseplates, but it's something to take into consideration. Note the "tab height" and see how that will relate to your towbar height.

--- Then you can still pretty much get any brand of towbar. If you mix brands, as I did, then you just get the correct "ends" on the towbar (they support mixing and matching for the most part.

--- I chose a Roadmaster bar, because it best matched the height of my car to my Chinook, and the "beak" that slides into the Chinook receiver neatly avoided the step and was a great height matchup. I ordered the Roadmaster towbar with Blue Ox "ends," (These are the little claws that mate up with the baseplate and hook the car to the towbar.)

--- I really liked one of the Demco bars and it had some great features. I bought one and carefully tried it out (just parked) with the proviso I could return it if need be. BUT, it either raised the receiver height (hit step), or lowered it (would drag on ground more often). I think it may also have needed some welding to make the "beak" fit with the step, but my memory is hazy on that. However with your lower tab height on the Fiat you may want something with a "down" position. (Basically they have a second tube welded on to make the beak. So where single tube towbars are always at medium height, the Demco is either higher or lower depending on which way you insert it, but never medium.)

--- There are raising and lowering tubes you can use in between Chinook and towbar but they would be kind of a hassle because of the step/door or the ground (scraaaaaape). Your Chinook receiver may be lower than mine, so in that case your lower tab height may still match up.

PS: For myself I found that I don't really like towing a car when I'm doing "active" traveling. Reason is because you cannot back up when towing four down (it breaks the tow bar and casters the cars front wheels causing damage). So it hurts my ability to turn off randomly and explore, and even getting gas or whatever is an exercise in not getting boxed in (you can always un-hitch and sort things out but that's annoying). I did tow it one summer just to give it a fair shake.

But I do really like having a car, and it's unbeatable as recreational equipment storage. So I've ended up taking a situational approach: If I'm traveling to get somewhere and then stay longer term, I tow the car. This includes most winter traveling, or a destination such as visiting a friend or relative. OTOH, if I'm off exploring and actively traveling, I stick with just the nimble Chinook. This might change if I were traveling as a duo, because then we could drive separately at times, and one person could scout ahead with the car.

The good thing is that you can pick and choose once you have the option.
1999 Concourse
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