Coach batteries change to Lithium
Coach batteries change to Lithium
I have a 2003 Concourse that has 2 large 6 volt coach batteries that need replacing. I would like to change to one 12 volt lithium. Can I do this and if so are there other changes I would have to make?
Re: Coach batteries change to Lithium
There are a few threads on the Electric subforum, for example.
Basically, you need to look at what need to be changed on the:
1, charger/converter
2, solar controller
3, chassis battery "booster" solenoid.
Some people disconnect the solenoid when they upgrade to lithium.
Basically, you need to look at what need to be changed on the:
1, charger/converter
2, solar controller
3, chassis battery "booster" solenoid.
Some people disconnect the solenoid when they upgrade to lithium.
2000 Concourse dinette, on 1999 6.8L Ford E350 Triton V-10 Chassis
Re: Coach batteries change to Lithium
My Lifeline AGM's are starting to show signs they would like to be retired (after 8 great years though, they owe me nothing), and I've been considering changing over to LFP. Here are the things I would be changing:
0) I already re-did the whole DC distribution system many years ago. This included things like a hefty cable from start battery to house bank, proper fusing, cutoff switches, cable size to match loads, etc.
1) You will want to consider temperature/environment. I moved my batteries inside under the couch when I did my main conversion back in 2014. Even then I knew I would probably go LFP some day. There are two temperature issues to consider:
a) No batteries like heat. LFP like it even less and are more expensive. So if you are in hot climates it may be better to have them in conditioned space.
b) LFP cannot be charged below freezing (you can use them for loads, but cannot charge them). Some have built in heater packs now, but making heat with electricity never comes free, so better if you don't have to.
I find that with my current house bank under the couch it stays coolish in hot weather, and warmer in cold weather (plus I can open the couch base door if I want to let even more heat in there at times).
2) You will need to be even more sure you have proper fusing. Reason is, with low resistance LFP can dump a very large amount of current into a short circuit. Many fuse types (independently of how "big" the amps of the fuse is) will not withstand that. I added a Class T fuse when I upgraded my bank to ~400ah of AGM some years ago. (See AIC rating for fuses.)
3) If you are going to charge as you drive (from the alternator via the start battery) you will want to add something a bit more sophisticated than what Chinook put in (back in the day, granted, not dissing them). An example would be something like a Victron Orion TR Smart battery-to-battery charger. Partly this is to protect the alternator from having to "give" too much; and partly it's to charge the LFP correctly. Along with that you will want a decent sized wire for charging, and a bigger wire if you want to be able to self-jump start. Plus proper fuses on both ends of that wire. There's a little more to it, but that's the gist (eg some LFP won't let you draw enough current to self jump start, tho you could connect and let it sit awhile; at that point maybe better to carry a jump pack tho). If you want to keep it simpl(er), I would give up on self jump starting (I'm going to keep it, but it's more work to set up and requires a more expensive LFP to provide the amps, especially if only one).
4) For shore charging, you will want a charger that can take custom settings (tho some just use what they have; I'd concentrate on whatever charge source you use most and make that really great).
5) If you have solar, same thing. Most good solar chargers do already allow custom settings.
6) A way to monitor your nice new bank is a good thing. Some LFP have bluetooth apps so you can see inside. But a battery monitor is still a great thing to have (note that ones that just use voltage, like the Smart Gauge, won't work with LFP for the same reason an ACR type combiner will no longer work: Lithium voltage is too stable). A Victron BMV 7-series is nice, but there are others.
7) I like to have a good way to control charge termination. There's more than one way to go about it, but for example if you have a Victron BMV 712 Smart battery monitor, and a Victron SCC, you can set them up to use tail current to terminate charging. (I rarely use shore charging, so that's not as much of a priority with me. But I'd at least maximize your main charging method for the LFP.)
I'll end by saying that I'm sure there are many people who "drop in" something like a Battleborn LFP -- and they probably do fine. Maybe I know too much
but I wouldn't be comfortable with that from both a safety and "these are pricey let's make them last" standpoint. Especially the safety part though because these batteries can dump a LOT of current very quickly into a problem. Actually, even my sub-400ah AGM bank has over 12,000 amps of short circuit current potential. That's not something you want to see running amok in your Chinook 
so proper fusing, fuse type (AIC rating), main switches, and good cable and connections are important.
If you want a good battery that is not LFP, I can't recommend the Lifeline AGM's highly enough. Great batteries, great manual that explains everything - and people you can talk to right in California if it doesn't. Mine have lasted 8 years under hard use (and they aren't dead yet, but they do get a senior discount now
)
0) I already re-did the whole DC distribution system many years ago. This included things like a hefty cable from start battery to house bank, proper fusing, cutoff switches, cable size to match loads, etc.
1) You will want to consider temperature/environment. I moved my batteries inside under the couch when I did my main conversion back in 2014. Even then I knew I would probably go LFP some day. There are two temperature issues to consider:
a) No batteries like heat. LFP like it even less and are more expensive. So if you are in hot climates it may be better to have them in conditioned space.
b) LFP cannot be charged below freezing (you can use them for loads, but cannot charge them). Some have built in heater packs now, but making heat with electricity never comes free, so better if you don't have to.
I find that with my current house bank under the couch it stays coolish in hot weather, and warmer in cold weather (plus I can open the couch base door if I want to let even more heat in there at times).
2) You will need to be even more sure you have proper fusing. Reason is, with low resistance LFP can dump a very large amount of current into a short circuit. Many fuse types (independently of how "big" the amps of the fuse is) will not withstand that. I added a Class T fuse when I upgraded my bank to ~400ah of AGM some years ago. (See AIC rating for fuses.)
3) If you are going to charge as you drive (from the alternator via the start battery) you will want to add something a bit more sophisticated than what Chinook put in (back in the day, granted, not dissing them). An example would be something like a Victron Orion TR Smart battery-to-battery charger. Partly this is to protect the alternator from having to "give" too much; and partly it's to charge the LFP correctly. Along with that you will want a decent sized wire for charging, and a bigger wire if you want to be able to self-jump start. Plus proper fuses on both ends of that wire. There's a little more to it, but that's the gist (eg some LFP won't let you draw enough current to self jump start, tho you could connect and let it sit awhile; at that point maybe better to carry a jump pack tho). If you want to keep it simpl(er), I would give up on self jump starting (I'm going to keep it, but it's more work to set up and requires a more expensive LFP to provide the amps, especially if only one).
4) For shore charging, you will want a charger that can take custom settings (tho some just use what they have; I'd concentrate on whatever charge source you use most and make that really great).
5) If you have solar, same thing. Most good solar chargers do already allow custom settings.
6) A way to monitor your nice new bank is a good thing. Some LFP have bluetooth apps so you can see inside. But a battery monitor is still a great thing to have (note that ones that just use voltage, like the Smart Gauge, won't work with LFP for the same reason an ACR type combiner will no longer work: Lithium voltage is too stable). A Victron BMV 7-series is nice, but there are others.
7) I like to have a good way to control charge termination. There's more than one way to go about it, but for example if you have a Victron BMV 712 Smart battery monitor, and a Victron SCC, you can set them up to use tail current to terminate charging. (I rarely use shore charging, so that's not as much of a priority with me. But I'd at least maximize your main charging method for the LFP.)
I'll end by saying that I'm sure there are many people who "drop in" something like a Battleborn LFP -- and they probably do fine. Maybe I know too much
but I wouldn't be comfortable with that from both a safety and "these are pricey let's make them last" standpoint. Especially the safety part though because these batteries can dump a LOT of current very quickly into a problem. Actually, even my sub-400ah AGM bank has over 12,000 amps of short circuit current potential. That's not something you want to see running amok in your Chinook so proper fusing, fuse type (AIC rating), main switches, and good cable and connections are important.If you want a good battery that is not LFP, I can't recommend the Lifeline AGM's highly enough. Great batteries, great manual that explains everything - and people you can talk to right in California if it doesn't. Mine have lasted 8 years under hard use (and they aren't dead yet, but they do get a senior discount now
)1999 Concourse