Panicking about camping in winter conditions

[spambucket]

Hi all!

Found out I need to take a trip to eastern WA, and stay in the Chinook for about a week, where it's going to be in the single digits, possibly sub-zero. Tried to do lots of searching but haven't really figured out the answer to my worry. I have a 2003 concourse.

We'll have shore power, heat pump probably wont work but the furnace is toasty and plenty of propane available. If I keep the interior warm 24/7, will everything be fine? Water systems, waste systems, electrical systems?

Currently the rig is winterized for parking, with lines flushed and antifreeze in traps. We have an annual contract with a place that handles our winterization (and will even de-winterize and re-winterize if we want to take a trip mid-winter!) but someone asked me if our batteries can handle it and now I'm scared.

Can we just de-winterize and keep the interior toasty (65+) the whole trip and be okay? Maybe just make sure to keep the bathroom, under-kitchen cabinets and under-bed access door to the freshwater tank open?

Oh, our rig also has that 'heated tanks' switch next to the water heater switch by the sink. It's the one system I haven't confirmed/repaired functionality of since we bought this last year.

[BobW9]

Since you have shore power, I would buy a small ceramic heater to keep the rear warm enough. Down near 0 is very cold. Personally, I have 2 small ceramic heaters that I run when down that cold, one in the front section aisle, aimed under the couch and slightly front), and the other in the rear, aimed back or a bit under the sink or bathroom (and save propane/money! for when I'm in less cold temps and dry camping). This tends to heat the entire cabin evenly, the middle staying warm because of the heat on the ends. When I get the settings balanced, I can completely forget about how cold it is outside (until I step out the door ).

The one in the rear plugs into the outlet inside the cabinet next to the microwave, using the microwave's fuse. The heaters I have can, barely, run on high together on the single 15 amp fuse that all the AC plugs are on (and no other AC items plugged in), but it makes me nervous to do that, as I don't want a breaker blowing in the middle of the night. Theoretically, they are 1500 watt heaters, but I've never seen either go over about 7 amps, even when on high, so color me skeptical they are more than about 800-850 watts max.

The Lasko heaters I have are decent and been working for years, though I imagine most these size are about the same. The fans make some noise even when new, and a bit more as they get older, but such white-type noise doesn't bother me. This is a newer version (mine are old and no longer sold).

Lasko Ceramic Tabletop Space Heater for Home with Adjustable Thermostat and 2 Speeds, 9 Inches, Black, 1500W

You do want to be careful with the trap under the shower, as that can freeze (mine cracked the first winter I had my rig, when I didn't think of it). Even with heated tanks, that trap does not have any heat wrap around it. I put some antifreeze down it after every shower, just enough to fill the trap, itself (I do tend to use the campground showers when possible).

[deppstein]

I think BobW9 has covered everything I can think of, with two exceptions...the first pertains to the water lines that are in the back storage compartment on the outside wall of the bathroom. With maintained heat in the Rig itself using furnace and/or ceramic heaters, that would be the only area I would be concerned about freezing up. I have camped in winter when the temp is in the 20's and have been fine as long as I run the sink faucet a little bit before bed, and when I inevitably get up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night (once, if I'm lucky) ! So, if I were you, the only thing I would add to BobW9's suggestions is to run an extension cord with a 60 watt incandescent bulb from your 20 amp outlet on the shore power post into that back compartment and duct tape it shut as best you can. Not the most elegant solution, but one that I think would work for you. The second additional suggestion I have would be to leave the "flap" to the couch and the sink cabinet doors open, particularly at night to let warm air circulate under there more easily Good luck, and let us know how it all goes...I, for one, will be most interested in hearing how you fare.
David

[chin_k]

I would also confirm that the tank heater is working. Test for connectivity and make sure the heating coil is not open. I think a better way to test is to get the resistance reading from a working Chinook, and compare that to your measurement. They should be very close to each other. (You can also calculate the expected resistance from the wattage. A 12 W heating element at 12 Volt is one Ohm. A 60W is 0.2 Ohm, etc.).

I added additional foam to the water lines (both hot and cold) to the outdoor shower and the bathroom sink. Open up the back storage area, and see if you see any bare pipe, and add insulation accordingly.

Blanket and cloth over the windows may help keeping the heat in. Stay warm and safe, and enjoy your trip.

[BobW9]

Forgot to mention - if you have the tank heaters on, make sure to have at least a little water in both tanks! From UltraHeat, one of the popular manufacturers:

only use heating pads when the tanks have liquid in them. If there’s no liquid to absorb the warmth, the heaters can damage the tanks themselves. In addition to replacing your heating pads, you might end up replacing your entire water tank.

[68camaro]

Lots of good info here. I would add, if you de-winterize I would still add pink anti-freeze in holding tanks and traps as abundance of caution.

[spambucket]

Thanks all, you might have saved me getting myself in trouble. I hadn't realized some shower pipes go outside. I'm actually at the shop now for the de-winterization appt, and this thread had some really good info. I talked to them about it, and we're going to pass on de-winterizing, and instead just grab a 3Gal jug. They're making sure there is enough antifreeze in the tank so that I can pour water down the sinks. Sounds like the simple way to look at it is I'll just make sure not to do anything that requires the water pump. My only concern will be keeping myself warm, and that's easy enough

You all are the best. Thank you so much.

[deppstein]

That is certainly the simplest and safest way to go. And I don’t think you’ll find it to be a problem to substitute bottled water for pump water—except for showering. Other than that it seems to me that doing dishes would be the biggest difference—more paper plates and one pot meals should do the trick! Just be sure to keep some antifreeze in toilet and sink traps after each use.
Do regale us with tales upon your return.
David

[chin_k]

If I have the time, I would add valves to the pipe so that the water will only go to the kitchen sink. It is pretty difficult to freeze the water tank and the pipe if the water only go to the faucet inside the rig.

[Chinnin-about]

I carry tank antifreeze with me, so I can use my black holding tank. Keep the mixture about 50 percent and your tank won't freeze.

I don't activate the water system but carry a 5 gallon igloo for water.

I have to go to Republic in eastern Washington so I know exactly what you mean. It's 20 below this week.

Ceramic heaters are great, but keep your propane tank full and your furnace on.