Passenger side remodel idea

[Kirah]

Have you consider attach a table to the wall, that swings up when you need it?

I actually took one of those out. A previous owner had modified the dinette to use a smaller table, which swung up and down like that. It was kind of not in great shape any more (wooden joints where the table leg folded out of the way were failing), so I didn't keep it.

I am considering a permanent or semi-permanent folding table as an option. I think I really need to get a better idea of how I use the space, though, to figure out where to put something like that. At one end? In front of the window? As a side table, or a dining table? So many things to decide

[Scott]

Cool update. Thank you.

My club lounge had a swing out table like those in Chin's photos. It's long gone. I don't remember why exactly, but I never liked it, and I removed the entire lounge area anyway. I now use a folding aluminum table which is much more functional because it can go anywhere (nice to have outside while boondocking), it's far more sturdy than the cantilevered MDF stock unit, and it folds up very thin so it's easy to store behind a cab seat. For outdoor chairs we use the little Colman folding stools; they're compact, easy to transport, easy to store, and they encourage good posture. I have dual beds now, and under the passenger side bed I have multiple clear bins filled with [deleted] and a couple tool boxes and shoes and whatnot. Lots of storage. Lots. My rig came with swivels under both cab seats; I've never used them and the previous owner never knew about them. A real mystery since my Chinook came with basically no options. The "remodel" catalyst for me was the jack knife sofa; it was a 9/10 couch and 2/10 bed, which is the exact opposite of what I want; we don't lounge really, and a comfortable bed is a top priority. The beds are seldom used for couches, but I've had six people sitting comfortably for a party of seven plus a dog .

[Blue~Go]

I hear you on the heat. I can sleep comfortably down into the 20's (with appropriate sleeping bag or comforter), but I don't enjoy sitting around of an afternoon like that. I agree that the Wave 3 is inadequate. If I continue with the Wave heater I will change it out for a Wave 6. Granted, it's partially the style of the way the Wave heats, but even sitting practically in front of it... nope, not enough heat for me. Luckily that's only around a $200 mistake (actually I have another use for the Wave 3 so that's even less awful).

Agree on the windows (you likely have single pane as I do). I have Reflectix pieces that fit in there (friction fit) and in very cold weather I put those in and then close my fleece curtains (replaced the blinds for reasons of preference) over them. Much improved! I also use the Reflectix if I'm in a super sunny spot in warm weather (on the West window, whichever that one happens to be).

Scott: Always interesting to hear of your doings, for a dose of refreshing, practical out-of-box thinking

[Scott]

Thanks for that. I appreciate your feedback. I could talk about this stuff all day. I just don't want to impose upon other members with extended prattle and opinionated blathering. There are so many styles that it's difficult to isolate a general ideal. Good thing I'm not an RV manufacturer; I would never sleep.

For heat, the stock furnace drove me nuts. I felt it was too big for the space; it would short-cycle ad nauseum. The deadband was extreme, plus large volumes of noisy hot dry air do not appeal to me. And it was physically huge, and the intake/exhaust fitting leaked rainwater into the coach, and the 12V draw. Yeah, see ya.

I use a Wave 3, and it's basically a foot/hand warmer. It's not really a space heater. But set on high with a headstart, it definitely takes the "chill off the walls" so to speak. I don't think I'd buy a second 3. Just get the bigger one (assuming that style of heating suits you). If/when I'm desperate, I run a 1500w space heater off the generator. A bit rude, but I'm usually the only one out there. My threshold for that decision is 19F. We made insulated curtains (curtains 4.0) that snap to the walls and really help with thermal containment, but then again the cab is a wide-open heat sink that I've not yet addressed. If we cook a big dinner on cold nights, it seems to make crawling into a frigid bed a little more tolerable (not ideal for moisture management tho).

[Kirah]

I'm thinking of installing a Propex HS2800 or even HS2000 to fill that bill

Looked up those furnaces. I like that they are substantially smaller than most of what I have found googling around and hitting camping supply sites. I'm fascinated by the combo propane/electric version HS2000E, but it seems to be only available in the UK - maybe due to different electrical standards? It's a lot of money, though, for an appliance I might use once every three or four years. Of course, when you need it, you kinda NEED it A combo furnace would definitely get used more often - the main reason I have usually gone to the electric space heaters is because it seems silly to burn my own gas when I can use the un-metered electric available at the site.

My main gripe about the current furnace is its location and size. Thinking through my remodel plans...

Do you see any reason I couldn't use the current opening for the fridge - which I am removing - to provide ventilation, power, and fuel for a small furnace?

I'd need to do some planning to allow access for repairs, if I built it in, but it would sure be a lot less in the way over there.

Not sold on this idea one way or the other, just plotting and scheming.

[Kirah]

I use a Wave 3, and it's basically a foot/hand warmer. It's not really a space heater. But set on high with a headstart, it definitely takes the "chill off the walls" so to speak. I don't think I'd buy a second 3. Just get the bigger one (assuming that style of heating suits you). If/when I'm desperate, I run a 1500w space heater off the generator. A bit rude, but I'm usually the only one out there. My threshold for that decision is 19F. We made insulated curtains (curtains 4.0) that snap to the walls and really help with thermal containment, but then again the cab is a wide-open heat sink that I've not yet addressed. If we cook a big dinner on cold nights, it seems to make crawling into a frigid bed a little more tolerable (not ideal for moisture management tho).

I found, on a previous trip when the furnace wasn't working (due to user error ) that running the engine and the dash heat actually did a decent job helping take the chill off. Not ideal, and wouldn't do it for long, but it does work in a pinch, and it's certainly no louder then my generator.

I would love to see how you did your curtains. I'm plotting a more permanent solution than "a piece of cloth tacked up with pins".

I have two cab privacy curtains, and using them both actually seemed to make a big difference in heat loss from that quarter. One is stock, I think, a kind of velour drape that snaps around the front of the cab and hangs down to just the bottom of the windows. The second looks very home-made - it is, well, not to my taste - but is full-length and snaps up between the cab and the "house". I also put up my windscreen sun shade, because why not.

[Blue~Go]

Kirah,

I've given some thought to where I would mount one of the Propex furnaces. I think that along with a Wave X would be a great combo. Big/easy heat from the furnace and quiet/non-electric heat from the Wave.

Part of the planning is the ducting (or you can have no ducts). I think the best place for "no duct" would be under the stove area alongside the wheelwell (but on the floor). You could set it in there perpedicular to the main hallway and point it straight out into the aisle. There is propane right there already (especially if you eliminate the propane fridge). There is also access through the floor for the exhaust tubes. I think that would be a great, relatively simple install and the heat would come out in a nice, central location (I dislike how the stock heat comes out way up by the cab and then the rear is an iceberg).

(Oh and yes, the combined propane electric model is 220 volts, so not available in the US.)

Another option is obviously where the stock furnace was, but that takes away a nice flat corner location for a "real" chair, a storage chest, a dog crate, or etc. I kinda like having that. Next idea is to put it where the little mini-bar table is on the club lounge, right alongside the wall (i.e. between where the two chairs go). Would take up only minimal foot room. Ducting could then run aft behind the stove with first duct coming out just ahead of the wheelwell (under rear chair base area), and another running back toward the rear hall/bathroom area (little tricky with generator box there).

Possibly it could go under the couch, but then it's like every blooming thing is already there. Still, I think there is room. Not as clear and simple though. But you could potentially run a duct into the bathroom for ultimate decadence (seal with deck plate when showering).

The under stove solution seems most elegant/simple to me. Uses odd shaped space, propane right there, central heat location even without any ducts to take up space or get dirty, relatively easy to run exhaust tubes, not to hard to get electric power to it. And then you have your "minus dinette" space free and clear

Scott: More extended prattle and opinionated blathering, please

BG

PS: I meant to add, that there is also the HS2200 which is for mounting outside. So cool, you could mount it under the rig. Sounds super nifty but after examining it I think I'd go with the inside one. The thing is, it's so small anyway and there is that easy wheelwell space under the stove. The outdoor one you have to run the (biggish) ducts up through the floor and there have been some rodent proofing concerns. Also you need to insulate those ducts. (With the inside mounted furnace, it's the exaust ducts going outside vs. the heat ducts coming in on the outside mounted one.) Also, the outdoor one is only the size equivalent of the smaller blue indoor one (I think around 6,400 btu), whereas the bigger green indoor one is, 9,500 btu. An overly large furnace is not a good thing, but I think the 9,500 btu might be nice in our case. But you could possibly mount the HS2200 under the stove/wheelwell area outside (would need more figuring and I already think I would prefer the 9,500 btu inside mounted one.

Oh, one other thing: You might think, Oh, the outside mounted one will be so quiet! It might be slightly quieter, but the thing is that the most noise is just the air coming through the ducts, from what I understand and so that's pretty much unavoidable with any forced air furnace. The way I would use one is just blast it full on for some time in the morning and then keep things warm with a nice quiet Wave or similar. Re-blast when needed. I'm not one to just have it coming on and off randomly 24/7.

[Scott]

Kira, I say curtains 4.0 because I've tried a bunch of things. The stock blinds worked but for various reasons I didn't like them, or their giant valences, or their powder blue color, or the ten hours I spent re-stringing one. I then made some curtains on rods. Much better, and easy to use, but not tight enough to the window for both thermal and light reasons. Then I went to flat panels held tightly to the windows' borders with neo magnets sewn into little pockets. Great, but they came down a couple times, which was shameful and embarrassing, so I changed to snaps. That was the solution for us. I can open them halfway either fore/aft or up/down, and it's a breeze to remove them completely. But they're usually up because I have a skylight (for natural light), and we don't really hang out inside that much anyway. I'm not sure what the material is exactly (my better 2/3rds bought it), but the fabric is a thermal/light barrier type stuff, almost like a semi-shiny thin canvas (it's basically as affective as Reflectix but fabric, not plastic). That side goes up against the glass, then a decorative pattern sewn to that for the part you see inside. I had the non-thin incandescent light fixtures under the upper cabinets, and removing those along with the large, protruding stock blinds/valences really opened things up. Surprisingly so.

[Scott]

Another way to stay warm without forced air is with a battery powered heated jacket. Charge during the day while the sun is up. Not fancy, not classy, not Propex, but pretty convenient. Also, I have a friend who happily uses a 12V blanket. Intuitively, low voltage heating sounds backward, but it can be just enough to make a comfortable difference. If I spent a lot of time in below freezing conditions, I'd probably put in a Dickinson or Cubic wood stove, but in Houston in July you would likely look at it with contempt and disdain. The old refrigerator spot would work. Free fuel, off grid, silent, radiant, and WARM.

[Kirah]

Furnace came out today. I have plugged the propane line indoors, for now, because I couldn't get enough leverage to break the connection loose underneath - it's sticky and/or just really tight. I have a tentative 'yes' from someone stronger to have a go at it soon. Thanks again, Blue, for the info on parts and methods.

I'm going to have to think about how to close off the holes that the vent pipes were using. Right now I just have the end panel from the furnace taped flush against the inside to keep out varmints and wind. Fiberglass patch? Metal plate? Just a thin piece of painted wood paneling? Screws won't bite in the top holes, so I may need to use bolts or glue to hold something over the surface... Research time! I have a couple of weeks before my next (short) trip.