Chinook RV

Alan,

I printed out a copy of your diagram, and then also a copy of the '95 wiring diagram that pertains to the same area. Compared them, looked at yours, tried to imagine what might be happening. I am still thinking that something went wrong with one or more solenoids, and so someone did some "rigging." The Echlin solenoid looks newer, but the mounts look like the original Chinook mounts.

Okay, so I made some notes on this diagram. It looks like maybe the combine/discombine solenoid (left one) for house battery alternator charging broke, and so the wire was moved as shown in the red dashed line so as to make that left solenoid basically just a power post (this avoids having to make new wires). If that is true, I'm thinking the added manual on/off switch should be along the line where I ask about it on the diagram. Is it? If so, that manual heavy duty on/off switch is actually combining and discombining the house/start batteries instead of the left solenoid.

If the Echlin is doing what I think it may be doing, it's part of the "on/off" switch for your house battery to house loads circuit. If you jumper the terminals as shown with the yellow arrows, does house power go on and off? (You might need to be unplugged and have a good house battery to know.) If this DOES work, then I think you would use the grey/yellow/white wires on the on/off/store switch on dash. But since that is disconnected, did someone replace an original solenoid with the Echlin but it never worked right? Or?

There are a few other notes on the diagram. Interested in your thoughts after looking at them. These are just educated guesses from seeing how it looks like they intended it to work, vs. what you have.

BG

kyidletime wrote:Also, I don't think that the Walmart battery that you recommended will work, all of their batteries are too wide for my battery tray. The tray measures 13 7/8" long and 5 3/8" wide. I'll just have to look for a battery that will fit.

The 1992-96 Ford E350 ambulance and RV packages use a 13.25" long X 5.5" wide 50 series for the house battery that's under the hood on the passenger side. It's an unusually narrow size, as you noticed.

The most popular version still available is the Interstate C50-XHD. Order it from your local auto parts store. (If they're an Interstate battery dealer they might have one in stock.) Costs about $130-$150.

Kevin

Thanks Kevin, I'll check that out. Although I don't really want to get a new battery with winter coming on.

Alan

BG, I looked at your comments and notes, and will get back with you after I've done a little more checking.

Interesting on the battery size - good information, Kevin.

When I got my Chinook it had been "grandpa's darling" (original owner, stored indoors, etc.), BUT you could see that "grandpa" probably hadn't really used it for a couple of years, and the grandkids (who were selling it) had just tossed in whatever batteries came to hand. There was one group 24 start battery in the house bank compartment (Chinook set it up for two Group 27's), and then a start battery, which I didn't pay that much attention to since it sounded healthy. Until I noticed one of the posts was rubbing on the underside of the hood (which is fiberglass, not metal). Erm....

That's when I found out that Ford vans of my era (1997+) take a Group 65 start battery. It's rather big and short in proportion. I'd never run into a Group 65 before. Anyway, I ordered one and not only doesn't it contact the hood anymore, but it was short enough to fit an MRBF fuse/holder on the positive post. Bonus.

Now I know even more about unusual Ford van battery sizes.

BG, I think that I'm getting real close to giving up on keeping my messed up charging system. Whoever worked on the system made it difficult, if not impossible to figure out. (at least for me)

What would I get into if I installed a Bluesea 7622 charging relay? Is it something that I could manage, or would I need to have it installed by someone who knew what they were doing.

I didn't want to totally rain on your parade earlier (though I may have drizzled a bit), but I think you're making a good decision. You have old parts, in an old-style system, and they were likely messed up, causing someone to "rig" things. Old classic things can be wonderful, but old electrical components... not so much.

Presuming you can follow instructions for connecting wires, and (my opinion) don't mind spending money on good materials, I would think you could do a fine job. Sure, you're not a pro, but one thing you have on your side is that its your rig, you are motivated, and you have time. These projects can be a bit fiddly, and professionals don't have the freedom to just take all day routing wires or etc., especially if you need to stick to budget. Whereas you can (if you want to) take all day or all weekend. With time on your side, and the motivation to do a good job, I think you can.

One caveat though: Be open to the idea of improving things beyond just the 7622. I don't mean million dollar things, but you might as well use good wire, make good connections, fuse things properly, etc.

So basically you have the three previously listed functions you want to happen:

1) Emergency jump start (i.e. combine at your will).

2) Automatic combine/dis-combine when driving/camping.

3) Connect/disconnect house battery from house loads.

The 7622 can accomplish the first two. I would use a Blue Sea on/off switch for #3, but that's just me. If you want to be able to do #3 with a small switch in the cab, then you'd need to use a relay. The Blue Sea 7700 remote battery switch would do this, but it is heavier duty than you need, and is thus expensive.

Also of course standard caveats about electricity can be dangerous, etc. etc. And like any project, you'll want to make some decisions such as do you have a final system goal, or would you rather keep the rest of the things more or less as they are now, but with components you could also use in a future expanded system, etc. No deal breakers but just things to think about.

If you are interested, we could diagram out some possibilities. Will be nice to know what you have and how its put together.

Hey BG. Yes, I would definitely be interested in coming up with a installation diagram for the Bluesea 7622. FYI, I'm also starting a wish list for upgrading my rig, and would like to have your opinions. We've already addressed the 7622, the next item on my list is the house battery, I plan on going with the Interstate C50-XHD which fits my battery tray perfectly. The next, not necessarily the third item would be an upgraded "smart" converter/charger, I have been looking at a Progressive Dynamics (PD4655V) 55 Amp Converter/Charger with Built-In Charge Wiz. What do you think of these choices, or do you have any better ideas. Also, I'm not sure of what amperage I need.

Is there any chance of getting you email or contact information? Might make it easier for me to pick your brain.

kyidletime wrote:Hey BG. Yes, I would definitely be interested in coming up with a installation diagram for the Bluesea 7622. FYI, I'm also starting a wish list for upgrading my rig, and would like to have your opinions. We've already addressed the 7622, the next item on my list is the house battery, I plan on going with the Interstate C50-XHD which fits my battery tray perfectly. The next, not necessarily the third item would be an upgraded "smart" converter/charger, I have been looking at a Progressive Dynamics (PD4655V) 55 Amp Converter/Charger with Built-In Charge Wiz. What do you think of these choices, or do you have any better ideas. Also, I'm not sure of what amperage I need.

Is there any chance of getting you email or contact information? Might make it easier for me to pick your brain.

Sounds great. We could still post back a summary so that others who will read - or are reading - the thread wouldn't miss out. ('cause don't you hate it when there is a long thread that's talking about just your area of interest and then it goes private and you're like "But, but... what *happened* in the end?")

How about if you send me a PM?

BG, I hear what you're saying, there might be others who would be interested in our meandering. I can be reached at 513-374-4254 by phone or text, or at kyidletimeusa@hotmail.com.
Alan

I just had a chat with kyidletime, and we talked over some of his near-future goals for using the Chinook. I don't think he'll mind if I share those, and then I'm going to add some links to things we talked about - perhaps others might like to see them too.

So, the near-future plans for the rig are to have the basics all functioning, to camp most of the time at campgrounds (plugged in), with the occasional night or two boondocking (Wal-Mart or elsewhere), preferring not to have to use the generator for the basic DC loads (obviously microwave, Air-con, etc. do require that if not plugged in). Since the '95 has just a single house battery under the hood, any plans to make the rig more of a "boondocking machine" would likely involve moving the house bank, perhaps going to AGM, etc. But for now that's not on the table, and so things will be set up with a flooded-cell, single house battery under the hood. This means it will be relatively economical to replace if needed. Thus the plan is to shoot for something like a 70% discharge "allowed" in the scheme. This reduces the overall longevity of the battery somewhat, but gives more usable amp hours in the meantime. And after all, replacing the battery once is no more money than buying two in the first place (which would be the case for a longer-lived pair that one would try to keep up to 50% or higher remaining charge).

Of the three functions that were accomplished with the previous (but now non-functioning) systems, two will be handled by a Blue Sea 7622 (jump start and auto combine/dis-combine), and one will likely be handled by a Blue Sea 6005 or 6006 switch (connect or disconnect house loads from house battery) (6005/6006 are the same switch, just one has a knob and one has a removable "key").

At the same time as installing these items, attention will be paid to OCP (fuses/breakers), and wire size/voltage drop. Although there is no plan to install a battery monitor at present, attention will be paid to figuring out the amp-hour consumption plus typical time used of the common items. This, combined with checking the voltage after batteries have been at rest will suffice for now.

Another item under consideration is a new charger. Either something like the Progressive Dynamics 9200 series, or perhaps a separate "marine style" charger. The advantage of the latter is that the charge settings can be set for the specific voltages for AGM's, etc. (future consideration). From what I can see, the PD simply has a single, pre-ordained setting for each stage of charging, and, for example, the float charge voltage is too high for AGM's. It also doesn't look like it is temperature compensated. No big deal for a single, relatively cheap flooded cell battery, but important for AGM (or lithium). Actually, it think some flooded cell batteries also call for different voltages.

Size of charger (i.e. amp rating) will depend on what size and length of wire currently runs between house battery and charger. If it's anything like what was in my rig, it may not be sized to handle much over 45 amps. Also, if there is a lot of voltage drop (mine had this), then the "smart" charging voltages are somewhat negated (because, say 14.3 amps and 15% voltage drop now equals 12.1...... what's the point of having the correct voltage coming out of the charger if it never reaches the battery).

Here are some links to some products and resources we discussed. We may have another phone call once we have some more specs, but we'll continue to post back here to keep the thread useful.

1) Blue Sea 7622
Installation instructions and sample wiring diagram

https://www.bluesea.com/products/7622/M ... 2V_DC_500A

http://assets.bluesea.com/files/resourc ... 180180.pdf

http://assets.bluesea.com/files/resourc ... L-ACRs.jpg

2) Blue sea switches, 6005/6006

https://www.bluesea.com/products/6005/m ... _Key_-_Red

https://www.bluesea.com/products/6006/m ... Knob_-_Red

http://assets.bluesea.com/files/resourc ... ersion.pdf

3) Progressive Dynamics PD9245

http://www.progressivedyn.com/rv_conver ... 45c_2.html

http://www.progressivedyn.com/charge_wizard.html

4) ProMariner ProNautic/Sterling ProCharge Ultra (same charger, different names) 40 amp marine charger. I have this brand charger in my rig (60 amp, but I upgraded wiring to handle it and eliminate voltage drop).

http://promariner.com/products/dry-moun ... cp-series/

http://www.sterling-power-usa.com/sterl ... arger.aspx

http://www.amazon.com/ProMariner-63140- ... 2470955011

4.5) Article on installing charger (it's detailed but has a lot of good information in it and a Promariner/Sterling is used in the photos and text)

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/inst ... ry_charger

5) ABYC ampacity tables for single wires (i.e. non-bundled), and for bundled up to 3 conductors (there are tables for even larger bundles - ratings go down accordingly).

assets.bluesea.com/files/resources/reference/21731.pdf

6) A good voltage drop calculator

http://nooutage.com/vdrop.htm

In general, parameters would include the following:

Select Voltage = 12 volts (for basic DC in Chinook - not for solar panels in series, etc.)
Select System Type = DC
Select Cable Size = variable
Select Conductor Type = copper
Select Conductor Temperature = I use 75ºC as a general default
Select Conduit Type = no conduit (I don't count loom as conduit)
Select Parallel Runs = single set of conductors
Length of Cable in Feet (one-way distance) = variable (both ways count in DC, but the calculator takes that into account with just one-way input)
Load Current in Amperes = variable

BG