Chinook RV

Good morning,

I do have the 7622 instructions (Blue Sea has them for download on their site). I had bought one before deciding to go with a switch for the combiner function.

In general, a switch always goes on the positive wire, and in this case (house battery switch) it will as well. Occassionally something happens on the negative wire, but in general it's "all about the positive." So the string would go like so, starting from the house battery positive post and leading off to the brown box/load center/charger:

1) Post
2) Fuse (as close to post as possible, which is why MRBF is nice as it sits ON the post. Reason for this is that any wire before the fuse is unprotected and if it chafes through or etc..... you have a stored powerhouse supplying that wire.... (the battery).
3) Switch
4) And then onward....

I have a thought on the 7622, but want to think about it for a moment before I develop it (I wired a smaller version on a boat).

It would be nice to have the 7622 "inside," but not 100% imperative, and you do want short wire runs. So maybe look for a close place that is away from engine heat as much as possible, and also out of direct spray if driving in rain. The stock Surepowers were mounted on the driver's fender hump, but don't even ask me how they got it in there ..... I could BARELY get mine out, and there was plenty of #(*&(!! Although not ideal, it apparently lasted, as mine was working when I removed it (AFAIK).

Okay, about my thoughts on the 7622 wiring. I had wired one of their other models of ACR previously (not on Chinook), and used an alternative wiring scheme they suggested, rather than the stock one. I got to thinking about it and wasn't sure if it would be advantageous on an RV or not. I called them just now to confirm and clarify my thoughts, and after we walked through it I think the standard scheme is best anyway for this application.

Also, the smaller ACR has a fuse on the negative leg, and I wondered why there wasn't one on this one. But the internal wiring is slightly different and it is thus not needed. So this whole post is just sort of a "never mind"

But so this post isn't a totally content-free, here is the wiring drawing for the Blue Sea 7622 that kyidletime is looking at:
There are also printed instructions that go into more detail, but for those just looking here, note that the small green and orange wires (isolation #2 and #3) are not used in our application. They are for if you have additional engines (thank goodness we only have one to deal with!).

Thanks for your help BG. The diagram that you sent is a little different than the one that I had but not much. Mine was showing the wire going to the engine start switch as optional, and I didn't hook it up. Mine didn't show the battery switch from the start battery. I haven't installed either of the battery switches, do you think that all three of these things need to be done?

ps... it was fun getting that remote switch installed in the dash.

kyidletime wrote:The diagram that you sent is a little different than the one that I had but not much. Mine was showing the wire going to the engine start switch as optional, and I didn't hook it up. Mine didn't show the battery switch from the start battery. I haven't installed either of the battery switches, do you think that all three of these things need to be done?

Good questions. Given that they are "meant" for boats (or most typically installed in boats), some of the diagram assumes typical boat best practice. For example, on boats, you generally/traditionally have switches for all the battery banks - including the start battery - and turn them off when you leave the boat. On the Chinook, since the Ford part is a typical vehicle, the start battery is not "expecting" to be turned off with a switch (and in fact that could lead to issues such as no radio presets saved, etc.). Of course sometimes people do effectively "turn off" the start battery when putting the vehicle in storage (by removing the start battery cable from the post), but one typically doesn't have a switch. Nothing stopping you, but I'd say it's more of a boat thing that doesn't necessarily apply to the Ford start/battery system.

I took a look at the instructions again just now. I see what you mean about the diagram being slightly different. The diagram I posted earlier was from their website under the 7622 page, but the one you have (and I just looked at) is within the instruction page. Anyway, my take on it:

On the brown wire... Here is an excerpt of what they say in the instructions:

Start Isolation

Engine Isolation
The ML-Series ACR can be configured to automatically open temporarily (3-5 minutes) when voltage is sensed on any one of up to three start-isolation inputs. Enable this feature to isolate Start circuits from the House circuit and prevent starting current transients from interfering with sensitive house electronics.

To enable Start Isolation:
• Connect the brown wire (ISOLATION #1) from the harness to the terminal or wire running from the start key switch to the starter solenoid.

The above is another "boat thing," because on the house battery you often have sensitive loads such as chartplotters etc., and I think (especially with a large engine) you could have spikes or etc. So there is probably no need to hook this up on the Chinook (although you could I suppose). The green and orange wire would do the same thing for additional engines, so also no need.

So in conclusion I would say:

1) No switch on start battery positive. This is not needed in a Ford/vehicle.
2) No need to hook up brown wire (or orange or green) since you probably don't want/need start isolation (but if you do, that's the brown wire).
2) Switch on house battery positive line to house loads. I think this is needed and desirable. Chinook also had this capability. Since often an RV is stored, you want to keep any small loads from running down the start battery. It can also be a slight safety thing, if there is a problem you can quickly shut of battery stored power from loads.

For this you can use a simple manual on/off switch with either a knob or key (such as Blue Sea 6005 or 6006). Or, if you just can't wait to put in another one of those remote switches , then you could use a Blue Sea 7700. The latter is more like the original Chinook setup, in that the switch can be operated remotely, with just a "small" switch. OTOH, it's more complicated and expensive than a pure/manual switch.

They also have a small solenoid that's more "old fashioned" (and likely cheaper), but it draws significantly more power (all the time) because it's not a magnetic latching type (which the 7700 and the 7622 are).

To my mind, there is no particular reason to have this "house on/off/store" switch on the dashboard. I mean, not that there is anything wrong with that, but it's not like it's something you'd be using when in the driver's seat. To me it's something you would turn off when getting the RV ready to store (in which case I'd more likely be in back, putting things away, etc.), and/or if you want to work on something in back. So if I had a choice, I'd be more likely to put it in the coach somewhere, even if I used the 7700 and had a "small/remote" switch.

On the OTHER hand, although you typically put a manual switch near the battery, I don't know that you have to. I mean, you have the length of the cable that runs from the house battery to the charger/brown box/load center, so theoretically you could interrupt it anywhere along the way for the switch (hence it could be back in the coach, under the couch, by the sink counter or etc.). I think usually it is considered safer to have it closer to the battery, so there is less "unswitched" cable, but you will have a fuse on the battery for any catastrophic short. I'll have to think if there is any other reason not to potentially put further along in that line. If not, you could use the cheaper, more robust, and (to my mind) more intuitive 6005 or 6006, and put it somewhere handy along that new #6 line to ran back to the charger/brown box. All the switch does is "break" the positive cable that runs from the house battery positive post to the charger/load center.

There is one more thing. The way Chinook wired the later coaches (and maybe yours too), they used the same wire (your new #6) to both feed the battery from the charger, and the loads from the battery. So if there was a time when you had the house battery switch off (what they call "store" position), and then you turned the generator on (or maybe plugged into shore power also I suppose) none of the charging current would get to the house battery...... because it can't go through an open switch of course. So Chinook put in a little light and a buzzer, and if you ran the generator (or I think plugged in to shore power although I never tested that), AND had that switch turned off, it would light up and buzz and tell you to "turn that switch ON, dummy!" Nothing would get wrecked if you didn't, but just none of the power would go to where you wanted it. I don't know if your system had that issue or feature, but I think it must if there is only one big positive line from the house battery to/from the charger and house DC load panel (that #6 wire you ran).

BG

PS: One other note is that Blue Sea's technical department is great - helpful and friendly. You can reach an actual human there without jumping through hoops, sending in forms, etc. Just call on the phone and press "2" for technical support.

PPS:

kyidletime wrote:ps... it was fun getting that remote switch installed in the dash.

Oh do tell more!

Good morning BG. Thanks for your thoughts, as always thought provoking and appreciated. As far as the battery disconnect on my house batter link to my brown box, I still am leaning towards utilizing that Eichlin solenoid and the dash rocker switch in performing that task. The way that I look at it that puts the function right at my hands, and makes some use of switches on the dash. I can always got the other route later by putting the switch under the hood right where the solenoid is. That would be a real simple thing to do. The lighted switch that I have has three posts labeled; supply volts, on acc, and earth ground. I'm thinking the red wire on "supply volts", white wire on "earth ground", and the gray wire from the solenoid on "on acc". How does that sound to you?

kyidletime wrote:As far as the battery disconnect on my house batter link to my brown box, I still am leaning towards utilizing that Eichlin solenoid and the dash rocker switch in performing that task.

Okay, I don't know a lot about that particular solenoid (or even if it works - maybe you have tested it). One thing to be aware of: Since that is very unlikely to be a magnetic latching type solenoid (such as the Blue Sea 7700), it will likely draw some power whenever it is connected (i.e. when house bank is "on"). The "beauty" of the magnetic latching units is that they don't draw power when latched (connected). I'm not sure how much your particular one would draw, but a Blue Sea 9012 (non-magnetic-latching solenoid) draws .13 amps. So that's just over 3 amps per day. Not a huge deal since I don't think it would be drawing when disconnected (off/store position) but just something to be aware of.

kyidletime wrote:The way that I look at it that puts the function right at my hands, and makes some use of switches on the dash. I can always got the other route later by putting the switch under the hood right where the solenoid is. That would be a real simple thing to do.

I hear you on that. If you change in future, you could do a different solenoid of the same type, the Blue Sea 7700 (magnetic latching switch with remote switch that matches the 7622 - ooh, matching ), or a manual switch.

kyidletime wrote:The lighted switch that I have has three posts labeled; supply volts, on acc, and earth ground. I'm thinking the red wire on "supply volts", white wire on "earth ground", and the gray wire from the solenoid on "on acc". How does that sound to you?

Well of course I can't see any of it, but I would think you would want the constant 12-volt supply wire to the "supply volts" terminal. That should come from the battery (indirectly of course), and sounds like it may be the red one. The white wire on earth/ground sounds reasonable, since Chinook (in my rig at least) used white wire only for grounds. The on/acc is the switched power going out, so that going to the solenoid makes sense. BTW, the reason there is a "third" terminal (earth/ground) is because the switch is lighted.

If you want to test the solenoid before you do this, one way is to use a pair of jumper wires, one positive, one ground and put them each on one of the small terminals of the solenoid. You should then hear a click as the solenoid activates. Then while keeping the small wires on (powering the solenoid), take a meter and measure ohms (continuity) between the two big terminals. They should have continuity when the small wires have powered the solenoid closed (which is what your switch should do and undo, ultimately). If the small terminals aren't marked +/-, and it doesn't work, you could try reversing the small wires (it probably does not matter anyway, so they may not be marked).

I'm going to have to do some more checking, either my connections weren't right or my solenoid(s) are bad. I'm going to do some bench testing on all three of the solenoids to see what I have. I just might have to wait until I get a new house battery before I can get things working. I just hate to buy a new battery going into the winter. I might have to be like a big ole bear and hibernate for the winter.

BTY do you know if there is a problem with yahoo chinook owners club, I haven't gotten any emails for a couple of days.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Echlin solenoid is not working. Otherwise why would it have been "worked around"? Also, I figured the one (forget which one now) of the other solenoids was also defunct, which is likely why it was re-wired as just a power post (I traced that with dashed red lines in one of the diagrams recently). 'course you are already taking care of both the non-Echlin ones by using the 7622.

If it's any consolation, a fully charged flooded cell battery (say you buy a new one) should be fine in storage unattended if it is cold out (they don't self-discharge much in cold weather). Or if it will be warmer, you could charge it a few times over the winter. If it's not being used at all, it will always be "at rest" and thus you can easily read the voltage to check on it with a voltmeter. You might take better care of it than Wal-Mart between now and then.

I have this charger (really more of a "maintainer" as it is only 800 milliamps) and find it handy for things that will be in storage where I have access to electricity. About $35 on Amazon. It's also very compact (I keep mine stored in a small plastic jar that used to contain snacks). You can get more info on it by reading the reviews.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CI ... 1_1&sr=8-1



This would allow you to get things up and running now, when you have time to tackle any unforseen issues; rather than rushing in spring when you'd rather be out using the rig. Anyway, one idea.

BG

PS: I don't think there have been any posts on the Yahoo! group during the time period you mention.

Posted a reply but it seems to have vanished. Anyhoo, the Yahoo group will go quiet from time to time for a few days until someone asks a question and stirs things up. Shouldn't be any problems.

Thanks Skillet and BG. I just finished bench testing all three of the solenoid and found that the newer Eichlin was working fine, of the two older ones, one was a little sluggish, and the other on wasn't functional at all. Since I had the Eichlin hooked up and it didn't seem to be doing anything other than lighting in one position, and not in the other. Could be that the wiring at the switch was wrong, or the lack of a good house battery. When I checked continuity across the two big posts, with the switch hooked up, I was getting continuity with the switch in either position, but when I was bench testing the solenoid, I was only getting continuity when the solenoid was activated. Does that sound right?

Oh, and I have a couple of battery maintenance trickle chargers that I use one the batteries that I don't remove.