Looking for a pre 1997 Chinook concourse Owner

[Blue~Go]

PS: I meant to post a link to the marine post adapters for automotive battery terminals. These allow you to use ring terminals to put multiple cables on one post (up to four condoned by ABYC), and also allow the fitment of MRBF fuse terminals (presuming the battery/bank is small enough that the 10,000 AIC rating is enough).

Ancor is one brand that makes them. This is the less expensive (but fine, I think) lead type. They also make a tinned copper variety (nice, but a luxury IMO). The typical convention on boats (which I follow on the RV) is for the positive post to be 3/8" and the negative to be 5/16".


One note is that although they show (and may come with, although I think they have stopped this practice recently) wing nuts, these are not a good way to secure things to a marine post. Far better to use regular nuts and lockwashers, or serrated flange nuts.

marine post adapters.png (52.87 KiB) Viewed 5031 times

Here is a MRBF holder with fuse in it. The fuse is the glass square. There are also double MRBF's if you need two different fuses on one post. These go right on the battery post, which is great (no unprotected wire) if you have the height (Ford Group 65 start battery does, at least on my '99 Ford hood), and if you don't need a higher AIC (typically one or two batteries such as group 27 would be fine, but one can always check to be sure).

[kyidletime]

Wow BG! That was a lot of information, it's going to take me awhile to cover it all. Also made my head spin. o Enjoyed talking with you last night. Thanks for posting the links, a lot of useful information there. I'll be getting back with you........... Alan

[kyidletime]

Hey BG, I've been busy doing some outdoors winter prep work, but that doesn't mean that my rig has been out of my thoughts. Got a couple of questions. I've pretty much decided to go with a Progressive Dynamics Converter/Charger. Question one, should I go with the 45 amp model or go up in amperage, to maybe a 55 amp model? If I go with the 45 amp model do I still need to increase the wiring size. I'm pretty sure that you recommended increasing the size from the original 8 gauge. Oops, another question, I've noticed that some of the models come with a replacement DC distribution board, should I go that route? I guess that that's not particularly a necessity, huh?

[Blue~Go]

Howdy! Well sometimes it's good to let these ideas "percolate" while you do other things.

As for the charger, just to reiterate, the PD chargers don't have adjustable voltage or temperature compensation. That's an issue if you have either "fancier" batteries or are trying for longest life out of your batteries. (Especially with your battery under the hood where the temperature will fluctuate a bit.) However, that doesn't mean it's not a good option; I just want to be clear on what it will and will not do.

With one flooded cell house battery (and hopefully a relatively cheap one, like that $88 Group 27), it won't kill you if your battery doesn't last eight years. And it's worlds better than the charger that came stock, plus cheaper than a "good" marine type charger. I would encourage you more to get the latter if you were re-vamping your whole system, going for a big boondocking system, big expensive battery bank, etc.

If you are keeping the #8 wire, I would not go over 45 amps. For one thing, the fuses that protect that wire are likely only 50 amp fuses (you can check though - this is what was in my '97). For another thing the voltage drop will just get worse with more amperage (this is another reason why having a fancy charger with that original wire is not that effective - no sense programming the voltage to the tenth of a volt, and then losing 20% of that to voltage drop, hence it's a completely different voltage by the time it reaches the battery). Secondarily, the ampacity rating of 105ºC rated #8 wire, bundled (it is bundled where it runs alongside the cabinets), and running through an engine space (which yours does) is only rated for a 47.5 amp fuse anyway. Now, a 50 amp fuse is fine, as there is wiggle room in these ratings, but I just mean I wouldn't go with a larger charger on that wire -- especially since it doesn't really give you much anyway (see below).

Also the main advantage of a larger charger is that the bulk phase goes faster. Thus if you are using a generator you can run it slightly shorter time for the same charge needed. But if you are plugged in this is of no concern. Also flooded cell batteries don't accept a super fast charge (AGM's do). So in summary, I don't see much advantage to you in getting a 55 amp charger anyway.

To elaborate, the "bulk" phase gets your batteries up to around 85% charged. Then comes the absorb stage, which takes longer by design. Essentially, no matter how large your charger is, the absorb stage takes longer to allow the batteries to... absorb! So if you are charging from say, 90% to 100% you'll see the same speed either way. (Then they go into float, which is more of a maintain mode - the original charger doesn't have this but instead just keeps pounding away on the batteries.)

I haven't looked (yet) at the replacement distribution boards (maybe you could point me to the one you are considering with a link), but I also am not sure what you have now. Is it the 9-position DC fuse board that's in the later "brown box" power centers? If so, it's basically fine. I went to a Blue Sea 12-position fuse block (Blue Sea 5026), but that's because I took out the brown box altogether and went with separate components. I do like the ring terminal interface of the Blue Sea style a bit better, because the screws in the brown box wire holders can loosen up, but they can always be checked periodically, so on balance I think they work fine if you are keeping the brown box anyway.

Hopefully this helps rather than muddy the waters more.

BG

[caconcourse]

. Oops, another question, I've noticed that some of the models come with a replacement DC distribution board, should I go that route? I guess that that's not particularly a necessity, huh?

Hi Alan,

Hope your upgrades go well. It would be interesting to know what manufacturer/model converter box you currently have in your Chinook, when choosing a replacement. Our newer Concourses had a Magnatek 7445 (45 Amp) , (which later became Parallax). If you have this unit, the PD4645 is made to swap in the new parts in the old box. This one comes with the new DC distribution board that can replace the old one. The new DC board has the "wizard" button buit-in that allows you to force the charger into a particular stage (usually used to prolong the boost mode, when you want to manually force a quick charge), and the board adds a couple of extra circuits, including a low amp circuit for your parasites (LP alarm, CO alarm, etc.). So, You may want to replace the DC board to get those features, plus it adds some LEDs so you can see which circuits are active, which can be helpful for troubleshooting. It's pretty easy to replace anyway, probably less than an hour.

You can buy an external "wizard" button, but it's more of a pain to install, since you have to make a special cable, and mount the button somewhere. I never use the wizard button anyway, so I like having it inside the box just in case I want it, but it doesn't need to be too convenient. Here is a picture of the old one and the new one. If you do change it, pull some slack on the big red wire on the right, because an extra inch or two would help.

Clay

[Blue~Go]

Agreed with Clay, that it would be interesting/informative to see what you have now in terms of the "power center" (which I have been calling the brown box).

[kyidletime]

Thanks Clay and Bg. I kinda figured it out that the main difference in the models with the replacement DC distribution board is that the updated board has a place for the "Wizard" to plug in while the other one have a plug in for the Wizard right on the converter. I almost positive that my rig's converter is Magnatek and is rated at 45 amps, so is most likely a 7445 model. I'll check for sure tomorrow.

Another "dumb" question! Does the converter/charger come into play when power is supplied thru all three of; being plugged in to ac, while vehicle is running, or from generator?

I think that I'll most likely stay with the 45 amp converter and the 8 gauge wire. I feel that with this upgrade and my other planned upgrades that I'll have a vastly improved rig. Thanks to my new rv friends.

[Blue~Go]

Another "dumb" question! Does the converter/charger come into play when power is supplied thru all three of; being plugged in to ac, while vehicle is running, or from generator?

Yes on the plugged in and the generator; no on the vehicle running (see more below).

When you are plugged in or have the generator running, the brown box charger is "on" and is charging your batteries (although with the newer charger that will be able to go into float mode, vs. full-on charging all the time, which is not necessary or good). The "brown box" charger takes 110 power input and puts out a nominal 12 volts DC to charge the batteries (and run house loads). Other parts of the "brown box" are also in play: There is likely an Automatic Transfer Switch (automatically selects the source of AC power as generator or shorepower) and you also have AC breakers, which are "live" and operational when you are plugged in or have the generator running. Of course the DC breakers are also up and running, but that is not exclusive to being plugged in or having the generator running.

When the vehicle is running, the brown box charger is not in use (it only works with 110 volt AC input, which is provided either by shorepower or the output of the generator). Instead, the alternator is sharing its power with the house battery. Alternators do put out AC, but the vehicle (Ford, Chevy, etc.) immediately rectifies it to DC, so only DC ever comes out of the alternator. Thus it can't power the 110 charger in the brown box.

This is why -- even if you have a "smart" charger in the coach -- you aren't "smart charging" when charging via alternator. Instead the house battery is just getting whatever the alternator happens to be putting out (in my rig that's between ~13.5 and 14.2 volts, typically). That's why I don't combine the start/alternator and house batteries unless I need to. I'd rather use the "smart" charging of the solar controller (they can be set up like a smart charger can, with correct voltages, three/four stages, etc.) and/or the AC charger.

If you are counting the entire brown box, and not just the charger part, then it does come into play when you are driving inasmuch as the DC fuse block is an active part of your house electrical system, and it will be receiving charge from the alternator when you are driving, presuming the battery banks are combined.

[kyidletime]

When you say "batteries" as in what my converter/charger is charging, you're referring to my house battery(s), not my start battery, right? I guess that's another dumb question, but it's early and I'm not fully awake yet.

[kyidletime]

FYI I took a look at my converter/charger and although it is a 45 amp Magnatek, it is a 6345 model rather than 7445. I suppose that mine is just an older version of the same thing. My panel board CTL is a type 1, rating 30 amps, 120 vac.