Compare Concourse and Premier, Pre '97 and Post '97

[Cincy Spin]

Hi all, I'm looking to becoming a full-time livaboard in the LA area by the end of January '17. I've done a lot of reading and research on this site and it has been invaluable, but I still have a few questions.
I had my heart set on a 1997-2004 Concourse with the club lounge but as might be expected this time of year, the pickins are rather slim. I have noticed quite a few nice Premiers for sale lately (no, not the scams on Craiglist) and wonder whether I might also be considering them. My understanding is that they are a "budget" model with all the same systems and capacities as the Concourse, different only in cosmetics and non-essential amenities. Would anyone care to comment?
I chose 1997 as a cut-off year because that's the year the V-10 engine was introduced, which I understand was more reliable and economical than the previous 460. However, I've seen a few nice-looking pre-'97 models and am wondering whether I should add them to the list, too. I seem to recall reading somewhere that the suspension was also upgraded in 1997. Are these differences of consequence and are there any others that would be important to consider between the pre and post '97 models?
Lastly, I've been using RVT and Craigslist to search. Are there any other sites or resources that might be useful?
Thanks in advance for any replies.

[kdarling]

Well, after almost getting several 1997-2004 Chinooks, I surprised myself and ended up with a '94 Concourse at a bargain price. This allowed me to put in another $10K into upgrades and mods. It helped that I enjoyed doing most of them myself, of course

OTOH, some of the mods wouldve been unnecesary with a later model. e.g. buying modern door mirrors.

As for the engines, the older 7.5L 460 engine has a good rep. Note that the first V10s had the possibility of blowing their plugs; see this link for info and fixes:

http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index. ... ic=71295.0

As for Concourse vs Premier, the latter has the minor decorating advantage of rectangular window frames and a separate window over the sink, if that matters.

Kev (in a rush, sorry!)

[Scott]

For me, there are no compelling reasons to shy away from the older units. I'd set a budget price, then shop for rigs around 75% of your budget, allowing you to comfortably spend the remainder on the inevitable repairs and needed upgrades. The Concourse is the higher end model, but many of the extras may be superfluous to you. Even with my stripped down, first model year Premier, I found that it still had much more stuff than I wanted, but I'm minimalist by nature and prefer space and raw functionality over fancy accoutrements. Naturally, this is all subjective and completely personal. The old 460 is a great engine, and is endorsed by many older mechanics, with its only flaw being a tendency to warp exhaust manifolds (not a minor flaw, by the way). If you find an exhaust leak at the manifold, install Thorley or Banks headers, problem solved, plus there are a few additional benefits from that upgrade. In a controlled head to head comparison, the V10 modular engine will prove slightly more efficient than the EFI 460, but I mitigate that argument in two ways. First, gas mileage is hugely a function of driving style. If you don't accelerate hard, constantly pass big rigs, or drive like a teenager, then economy isn't going to be hugely different between the two engines. And second, gas is one of the cheapest parts of owning one of these rigs. I do the best I can, and then stop worrying about it. Also, the modular V8/V10 engines have a few flaws of their own, all of which are well documented and easy to research. Good luck in your search and hope you find a good one!

[A Rooney]

FIrst,my suggestion to anyone searching to buy a chinook would be patience......since buying my Premier going on 3 years...I continue to monitor what's being offered for sale....and I have noticed that you can still find extremely low mileage units,rare V10 side entry models,remarkably modest priced units,if you have patience,persistence,and the time that implies.However that said,we are all different...some of us want a unit we can mold and upgrade to our liking,others seek a unit that is so well maintained in every aspect it needs no attention after the sale and perhaps are happy and willing to pay for that.My own personal guess is most units up for sale,may need alittle attention and perhaps a few thousand in work to get them ready to ride with all systems go.Its unlikely the seller will replace the tires or batteries just to sell if they are at all functional,and these are items you will rely on and deteriorate over time....Generator,Ac,water pump,fridge etc etc are all items that require attention and suffer by neglect....The reason forums like this are so handy,is that things go wrong,and most of us perforce learn the intracacies of these onboard systems and mechanics to the degree we are not totally helpless on the roads we travel.As for which years to target,(to actually address the question)I think the obvious differences are the window shapes Premier/Concourse...pre 1997 will have a less sophisticated electrical...The v8 models (which may not be entirely year related)vrs the V10. ...I also have heard the V10 average 2mpg better than the V8.... But I don't know ho accurate that is,and I see enough older V8's still in heavy use to believe that is a reliable motor....Sometime in the year 2002 onward the last modifications were made to the Premier/Concourse design with double insulated Windows paint,and other body modifications. And these models seem to command a premium on the market....As for the interior besides the Windows the premier model could be ordered from the factory with all the bells and whistles of the Concourse,so it's not necessarily a poor relation....that said I have seen Premiers with what I thought were very horribly cheap interior cabinets etc.I also had my eye on a Concourse,but when I encountered the right Premier at the right price I happily jumped and I never looked back or throw an envious eye at my Concourse brethren...much less the Cascade,Destiny,Glaciier,Summit.elite.Best of luck to you in your search if you have not done so already check out the chinook history at the Tincan tourist website.Rooney

[SMan]

Not sure I can add much. I will say I had a 24' 1993 Tioga with a 460. Great running engine and I got just under the mileage I get with my 21 foot Premier. My Tioga did burn up the E4OD transmission at about 20K miles.

I have no experience with the Concourse but I will say I really like the light maple cabinets in my Premier. We don't have all the bells and whistles of a Concourse but it works well for us. I did just change tires as they had a 2003 DOT code making them close to 14 years old. Went with Cooper Discoverer HT3 as opposed to the Michelins. A lot of these used Chinooks have tires with good tread but can be really old.

[Cincy Spin]

Wow. All my questions answered, and then some. Even some philosophical advice. Minimalism, yes! Patience, yes!
I appreciate all your replies and found each helpful. I think I'll continue to focus on the newer models as my current living situation doesn't allow for making many repairs or upgrades, but I won't hesitate to get a Premier if I come across the right one. Thanks to all.

[kdarling]

As for searching, there are many rv ad sites, but few worthwhile. I used to love Searchtempest as a way to do all of Craigslist at a timr, but apparently they just got messed up by new Google limits. Darn.

Oh yeah, did you mean RVT or RV Trader? The latter is a good source.

With Craigslist, always check off all the surrounding areas on the left, including the hidden ones, and save as bookmarks.

Also see shoppok.com. Also watch pplmotorhomes.com in the class B/C section... sort by size. Sometimes a nice Chinook shows up.

----

For some mysterious universe karmic reason, if you're looking for a club lounge, only dinettes show up. And vice versa. So hang in there.

The main thing is to be ready to travel and buy at any time. Contact a seller quickly. There are many buyers out there. Do always use a throwaway email address in case you run across a scam ad.

Assume in your budget that you'll probably need to buy six new tires, even if the current ones only have 10,000 miles and the owner still thinks of them as new. Quite often the tires are over five years old and have been sitting a long time in the sun. If in doubt, check their date codes.

[Cincy Spin]

Great info. And just when I thought all my questions had been answered. I checked out Shoppok - looks like an excellent resource. And always good to be reminded of effective buying technique.
All served with a bit of mysterious universal karma...yes...

[Blue~Go]

For some mysterious universe karmic reason, if you're looking for a club lounge, only dinettes show up. And vice versa.

Ha, so true!

In my case I was looking for a Club Lounge and for the longest time they were ALL dinettes. All!

I'm another one who would have gone for either a Premier or a Concourse. To me they each have plusses and minuses so it was all about condition.

[deppstein]

I'm just back from several weeks in Amsterdam and Paris...took a winter break from Rig Travel, so am just now catching-up on conversations that I missed over the past several weeks to which I might actually have something to contribute.

We have a 2004 Premier--bought it used three years ago now, with a mere 16,000 miles on it. Felt like we had died and gone to heaven. As has been written, you could order Premiers with bells and whistles. In particular, ours came with beautiful cherry cabinets and a nice grey (neutral) fabric for couch and dinette. It has two-burner stove instead of the Concourse 3-burner, but same double sink area. As far as I have been able to see, there is no functional difference between these two models. We have done a couple of mods to suit our travel style of 6-8 weeks out at a time, mostly staying in state campgrounds (jewels of America)...we rarely hook-up, and carry two bikes (Copenhagen Wheel Electric Pedal Assist) on front mounted rack, canoe on roof (remove thwart so it can sit nicely over the AC unit), and mount two 3.8L dry bags for additional storage on the outside ladder.

Since we are two, sleeping on the jack-knife couch was never really a consideration. That is why we went for the dinette lay-out. First of all, we really like the couch/dinette set-up for "hanging out". It provides ample room, and having the table to eat at, or work at is perfect for us. As to sleeping--dropping table and jack-knifing sofa to make a full queen (nearly king) bed is a snap, and with two thermarest pads down (stored during day behind the couch) it is a very comfortable bed!

Other mods included getting rid of the tv (right away), and replacing it with a book shelf. Also dumped the microwave above the stove to create additional (and much needed) pantry space for food. Thanks to advice from folks on this forum, we have also upgraded batteries (now a pair of Group 31's) with a Blue Sea 7622 separator instead of the stock Sure Power 1315, and larger wiring to minimize voltage drop. Again, we are not nearly as sophisticated as others posting here about our charging and use of house batteries. Our current set-up is plenty adequate for the 3-5 days of not moving that is our pattern. No trouble keeping the 3-way frig running, or lights (now all LED), or hot water, or water pump (or fantastic fan for that matter). And we alternately charge our computers,phones, Copenhagen Wheel bikes while driving via a 150 watt pure sine inverter plugged into the aux outlet on dash.

We don't winter camp very much...so heat is not so much an issue--if it were, I would go with some sort of catalytic if boon docking...or just a small electric ceramic if plugging in. But others, like Blue-go who use their rigs more extensively than we do would be a better source of information about all that...we are not nearly as self-sufficient. More like old tent campers who have upgraded to the honeymoon suit.

The 6.8L v10 that we have gets about 12 mpg. No issues. In fact, the only thing we've done in 40,000 miles is change the oil, replace the original tires, and brakes.

Any questions, let me know...and good luck in your search.

David