Chinook RV

I realize this question may have already been answered but my searches have only shown related information. So apologies in advance if I missed it.

I'm going to add solar capacity gradually. My first goal is to replace the existing Siemans panel with a higher wattage one. Right now I'm thinking the Renogy 100w slim panel. Will likely replace the solar charge controller at the same time. My question relates to how to replace the existing wiring from the panel to the controller. I don't know if I need to take down the inside headliner or if there's a channel sandwiched in the roof where I can pull out the existing wiring and snake a heavier gauge wire through. Maybe I have to attach the new wiring to the end of the existing wiring and use that to pull it through?

I know there are lots of other issues regarding panel selection, controller, fuses, location of the controller wrt the batteries, etc. Right now I just want to understand the mechanical aspect of routing wires through the vehicle.

Thanks in advance for the guidance!

Jeff

I was about to ask the very same question about the route of the wiring from the panel to the controller, and from the controller to the batteries. I read pieces of the information here and there, and it will be great if someone is kind enough to gather all the information and put them in one single thread.

I've just been eyeing up those "slim" panels as well. They are about 6" longer than something like the Eclipse panels (not as efficient, cell-wise), but they are 1" narrower, which is nice for us. Four will fit on the roof side tiers (if you have removed antenna). Also much less expensive than the Eclipses. I do really like the Eclipses, but I'm more interested in the narrower, don't really like the black, and have room for the length. There are panels that will completely fit the upper tier but they are all lower wattage and/or much longer (closer to 60").

[Edited to add: One thing about those Renogy "slim" panels is that they are relatively low voltage (like 16). This isn't great if you are running them only in parallel, because it's good to have more "head pressure," voltage wise (most similar panels are 17.5-19 volts). However, if you are running them in series parallel (which is what I do), then no problem as you have 32 volts, and there's really no advantage that I can see to having 34 or 35. If running purely in parallel though I'd want higher voltage panels (most other "12 volt" panels).]

On the wiring, since I have a '99, this should be pertinent:

Starting on the roof, if you were to remove the original panel, you'd find an SAE connector coming up out of the roof (has a three-screw flange). Here is a ridiculously primitive sketch I made a couple of years ago that shows where the hole is (and also shows the big antenna-rotator hole on the other side). I can't remember what the jaggy thing at the bottom is at the moment, so ignore. It meant something to me at the time
From the SAE connector on the roof, two, IIRC 12 gauge wires (I know, so small) go through the roof cavity and then pop out into the overcab just above the original controller (which you won't want to keep if you are upgrading panels). Then from the solar controller to the batteries (which are practically in a different time zone) with another skinny wire (this goes across inside the overcab) which ends up at an inline fuse at the house bank and then right to the battery posts.

One thing I don't have on the sketch is the bathroom roof vent. This limits the driver's side tier to around 109", IIRC. At any rate, it's not enough space for two ~58" panels end-to-end on that side.

I thought about trying to re-use this channel but ruled it out for a few reasons:

1) If it's only got a pair of 12 AWG wires in it now, is there room for larger ones?

2) What if something goes wrong inside the roof at a later date?

3) The SAE connector is not really useful (IMO) for newer larger panels, and it's not any special seal anyway.

I then thought about whether I might want to use that wire for anything else but ruled it out for the same reasons. Thus I filled the hole with thickened epoxy.

I did think about using it as a new "through hole" for my new wire, but the problem with that is that it would come out at an awkward place in the cabin.

So, I'll just be running new wire, in a new place, with a "good" through-deck gland. There I'm still considering a few options (ridiculously, with the effectiveness of the ground panels, I still don't have my roof solar on yet!). The glands I'm speaking of are generally used on boats for deck penetrations.

1) A Newmar DX-5 will eclipse the large hole that originally held the TV antenna adjustor crank. This will fit multiple wires. On the other hand, they "stick up" as they come out vertically. May not be a problem but depends on how thick the wires are (bend radius) and how high you have the panels off the roof.

2) Multiple Scanstrut 90º roof glands. These only handle one wire apiece (and only up to 10AWG, IIRC), but then the wire doesn't go up/down in a shepherd's crook type fashion after exiting the gland on the roof. If running series pairs (as I do/will), then 10AWG is sufficient, depending on panel size/run length.

Scanstrut also makes a nice oblong one that handles multiple wires, but it doesn't "cover" the antenna hole. But you may not be using that. Blue Sea makes glands as well; I just happen to prefer the Newmar or Scanstrut ones, but I have used the Blue Sea in the past too.

With these scenarios, any junction "box" will be inside, either in the overcab or one of the upper cabinets forward. I don't want a junction box up on the top tier, and not even really anywhere else - just not convenient (or necessary) to have it on the roof for my setup.

There are other non-marine ways to bring wire in. After either reading reviews or seeing them in person, I wasn't taken with any of them. Either lack of faying surface (for sealant), questionable connectors, or what-have-you. I know the marine glands work.

Controller is/should be right by batteries, not across the hall or in the next-door RV (Not that it was a big deal with a small battery-tender type panel, so not knocking Chinook for what they did in the late 90's.)

Has anyone looked at the Solarland SLP070-12M solar panel? It is a polycrystalline 70 watt panel and is referred to as a "skinny" panel at 13.46 inches wide. Very is very close to the original size

Yes, I have considered it - likely others here have too. The narrow part is nice. What is, to me, not so nice is that - being an older design/less-efficient/poly panel, it is very long for the number of watts you get. Being close to 60" long (quite a bit longer than the original Siemens) you can't easily fit more than three, which is 210 watts. In contrast, just two Eclipse, Renogy slim, or etc. give you 200 watts. And if you load up the roof similarly to the SLP (but just a bit wider), you can have over 400 watts. So as much as the skinny appealed, I just couldn't get excited about the size vs. efficiency. And even the wider typical 100 watt panels don't hang over the roof edge - just over the next tier a bit. Oh, and another thing is the voltage is a bit lower. That's fine if running in series parallel, but with three panels that's awkward. (Same goes for the Renogy slims, which I think are a bit low voltage for running in parallel, but it's easier to run those in even number series pairs.)

You might like them though - I'm just saying why I ruled them out. Zamp also makes some narrow panels, but as I remember it they have a similar length issue (because they are much narrower than the 18+ inches of our tier so they have to be longer).

You are the man.....

On the subject of upgrading the wiring, basically what I look for is how to minimize voltage drop. Solar is already a "minimal" charging source, so the last thing you need is a leaky bucket bringing the power in (which is one way to think about voltage drop).

So, first of all, of course use case and what you want to do with your power.

Next, how will you store your power (battery bank).

Then, how will you put back what you use (solar, plugging in, generator, driving, etc.)

Then, presuming solar is going to play a small or large part, how many/what size panels and in what electrical arrangement (parallel, series, series-parallel).

Once you know that, you can figure out the best way to run the wires (physically) and, once you know the length of the various legs, what size wire you need (I can help calculate this if people are interested). This would include any junction points, a switch, etc.

Then the solar controller and/or display, and (ideally) a short run to the batteries.

Now the sun comes out and your batteries silently charge themselves Mine did it all day. It's the perfect power source for my use case. (Unfortunately, I'm listening to someone else's generator presently but I do have wheels. And at least it's not mine.)

Another thing about wiring... Unlike the other components within the system, the wires don't wear. They're a pain to install, and if you want to upgrade the system later, wiring can be a bottleneck. So even if you cobble together some mediocre panels, a cheap PWM controller, and a few old flooded batteries, it's still wise to invest in really good, heavy gauge duplex cable. Install it once and forget it.

[Just wanted to add that I use the Ancor duplex. Great stuff. I get it from West Marine.]

That is such a good point. Take those "pillar" panels out once and I guarantee you won't want to do it again (Not that it's SO bad, but as Scott says, put in good, well-sized wire once, secure it well, and be done with it.)

Talking about doing a good job with cabling, I just noticed that the lug that connects the battery (-) to the main ground was loose. In fact, I just removed the lug earlier by wiggling it off the cable. It is the one that they put the tiny wire (-) from the solar charger together with the main ground.

I am going to order some new lugs and redo some of the connections inside the battery compartment. Any one know a good source of marine-grade cable (1/0 to 2 AWG)? I don't want to spend $100+ on a 25 feet spool but only end up using maybe 3 or 4 feet of red, and maybe 3 feet of black.